Coaching Through Fear

0:00:09.3 S1: Hello Savvy listeners, I’m excited you are taking the time to invest in yourself today, SAVVY, the business podcast, will show you how your daily habits can create your own platform, experts will share solutions and efficient tips to create a road map just for you. One thing that can make this happen, change your habits, change your success.Welcome to SAVVY, the business podcast.

0:00:40.3 S2: Hey, savvy listeners. It’s your girl, Tracy, you know what time it is, it’s time for a little coffee cuff therapy, get you coffee and come on in and join me real quick. So I’ve been thinking, let me tell you something, don’t ever, ever, ever ask anyone’s permission to pursue your dreams, you know why, because your dreams belong to you, and they’re important and they matter, and don’t let anybody tell you any differently. Okay, remember, you’re the captain of your own ship, the author of your own story, so you are the one that’s in charge to make these dreams of reality, so I say Work hard, dream big and make those dreams of reality… You know that old saying, Go hard or go home. So go out there and be awesome today folks, have an absolutely amazing day, enjoy your coffee, and remember this world absolutely needs you, and one more thing, don’t forget, send me some feedback and send those emails to media and savvy bag. Donbas, I hope to hear from y’all. Hello.

0:02:12.3 S1: Welcome to join me on say but the business podcast. I am excited to have our guest on this morning, we are talking with Ms. Jennifer Thornton, and she is a coach. And as always, when I bring coaches, and we’re gonna get into why she is the coach, so I’m gonna read you live it up her bio and we’re just gonna jump on and as always, Jennifer has experience in talent strategy and leadership professional development over her exciting 20 plus years and as an HR professional, Sheela international teams across Greater China, Mexico, the UK and the US, to explain it to new markets, managing Frenchie retailers and developing key strategic partnerships all while exceeding business objectives and financial results. The rapid growth of her consulting firm, 304 Coaching has been largely due to Jennifer, our conventional approach to building innovative workforce development solutions… Nice. For companies who are facing breakthrough growth and accelerated hiring patterns, such a great topic in the year of this world right now, I’m just gonna say injuring on and joining us today.

0:03:32.6 S2: Thank you for having me. It’s gonna be a great time.

0:03:34.9 S1: Absolutely, so let’s just jump right in. Coach, there’s so many people using the name Coach, they’re dropping the name there, coach of this coach that what… Separation from every other coach out there and why… What they really call you coach go.

0:03:54.6 S2: Oh my gosh, that’s a great question. What a good starter. I think that what makes me different unique is that I have spent many, many years in the corporate environment, and I worked with all different types of teams, I’ve worked at all different levels, and so I have a lot of historical context of what it’s like to work in teams, team dynamics and what works and what doesn’t work, and I’ve spent the last several years really studying the neuroscience of the mind and how does it take in language and conversations in the workplace, and then all of that stuff makes some chemical reactions happen in our brains and that influences our thoughts in our actions and our beliefs, and so really, I help people when I’m coaching the executive, we’re doing the mental work of being an executive, and we talk a lot about fear and how do we instill trust and innovation our teams and we do it from a practical application standpoint, but again, we’re also focusing on science and understanding how our language does impact people’s beliefs and thoughts and reactions.

0:05:09.4 S1: Wow, so you set something in there about studying the brain and just the thought process of individuals, what Matt, you decide to take it another level and say, You know what, I’m just not gonna culture, but let me understand the thought process and how do we get to certain areas.

0:05:32.1 S2: So I’m a lifetime learner, and when I left my corporate job and decided to go out on my own and start my own company, one of the commitments I made to myself is every single year I will take a new program to advance my skills, and I think that if we’re not learning, then I don’t know what we’re as humans, how can we just not constantly be learning? And several years ago, I was in search of what was next for me and what was important to my clients, what was important to me, and I came across an incredible program called conversation intelligence, and there are just a few of us in the world that are certified by Judith Glaser, she had spent 40 years setting the neuroscience of the mind in the workplace and its impact on the business results, and I just came across it by chance, actually, and thought, This isn’t great, and fell in love with her, fell in love with her teaching and in fact, in March, I started a different neuroscience coaching program, ’cause I wanna learn from other people who also are as passionate about it as I am, so that’s how it happened.

0:06:37.1 S2: I came across it by chance, and it was really life-changing for myself, I learned some of the things I thought was really good to say at work is really inciting fear in others, and what we know about the brain… Most of what we know about the brain, we’ve only discovered over the last 20 years, and if you think about how we were taught to lead… These practices have been around for more than 20 years, and so how we’ve been taught to lead in the past, oftentimes creates fear, therefore we’re not getting the results that we want and desire.

0:07:11.5 S1: Wow. Yeah, absolutely. And speaking of fear, not only what the world went through in 2020, but the loss of jobs, the self-esteem, I mean, just the mentality of everything happening, and it was absolutely nothing that could be done, or as hard as you try to find a job provide for your family, or if you are a business owner, Oh my God, what’s gonna happen? Yeah, alright. And on the other side of it, it was some positive things for some people because they started a lot of businesses, so it was almost a year… Not almost, it was a year of reflection for so many people, but they’re getting to that point, so what… What you say to someone on both sides of it, great, you discover this talent that you have and you push for in a start of the business, and then on the other side, it’s getting back into that, that workforce, changing your mindset, understanding some of those triggers to get you back up and going.

0:08:25.6 S2: So what I would say, first of all, is fear is only a chemical reaction, there’s actually no validity to it, and I think that’s what we have to often stop and realize that when our guts like, Oh, or we make up a story in our head like This person doesn’t like me or I’m not gonna do well in this interview, it is really your body trying keep you alive, and your brain has one job and that is to keep you alive, and what that met during our evolution was keeping you in the cave ’cause it was safe in the cave. Right, and I was also keeping you in a tribe because you couldn’t find for yourself, you couldn’t provide food and shelter and water and heat and all that, you couldn’t do it by yourself, and so we are hardwired to stay safe and stay in our comfort zone, and we’re hard-wired to stay with and the people we know in our tribe that we know and fear, when that chemical response happens in our brain, what it’s doing is telling us Stay Safe, and so when we don’t go for that job that we might get, but we’re not real sure, or we don’t make that call to that networking partner because we’re not real sure how they’ll respond, it’s just our brain trying to keep us safe from rejection…

0:09:38.0 S2: Safe from judgement. And what I would say is when you have that feeling, just recognize it is just a chemical response, there is no truth that you will not get hurts.

0:09:49.8 S1: Wow, I like that. I like that. And now, with this week, from what you just said this week, how can art… They was like, Okay, I’m gonna shake it off. We pathway get up. What in the hell was happening? Right. What would you say to someone that’s in that moment? What would I say to them? I would say that your brain believes whatever you tell it, and if you tell it something long enough, it’s going to become affect in your brain.

0:10:32.0 S2: Which I think is so fascinating, that our brain just believes that we tell all the little chatter and talk that we do in our own mind, it just starts to absorb it, and so what I would say is be careful what you tell yourself, be careful of this story you create, because it is an interesting time in our world, I don’t know how is to say it, but if we look at it and say, Wow, this is troubling, and it completely is troubling, and I’m in fear of the future for my children or whatever, whatever your fear is driven from, accept that and know that, yes, this is tough, but then start to use your energy, your brain energy to, to think about How can I impact, how can I make a difference? How can I be a voice to my children or my friend group or my loved ones that can say, This is a moment in time and we can be… We can set in this fear, this anxiety, or we can acknowledge it and recognize it and think about how we wanna approach it verbally and mentally differently, so that maybe we can help break some cycles.

0:11:43.6 S2: And I think that a lot of the problems we have, you can’t go home to a family dinner and use… Talk about a whole list of things. Well, if we’re not talking about them, that’s not moving the needle, but how we talk about them is what’s the difference, if you talk about it as in, these are my beliefs and they are the facts, and you’re crazy, and it’s like, We’re gonna fish it out in the living room, that’s not productive, but if you have to or conversations and you seek to understand their viewpoint, you seek to ask questions, you don’t know the answer to… Which is a huge thing I teach, I ask questions. You don’t know the answer to, it’s really hard to do that. Then the conversation changes, and that’s when we start to start to make progress, but as long as we’re sitting in this fear and this tribal mentality, which we are built to think of, that’s our hard wires tribal mentality, and we’re seeing that… As long as we’re falling into that, we’re not making progress.

0:12:44.8 S1: Wow. Yes, so I’m glad that you said that. And I just go, we fall into our habits and our habits, it was so hard to break sometimes, and then with those habits can also be the people that’s surrounding you as well, so it’s understanding and knowing when to… I’m not gonna say cut him on off or anything like that, but if nobody went to… If it is, if it is the end of that season to cut them off, then it’s not… No hard feelings or anything, it’s just, you know, Hey, it’s time for growth, you’ve learned certain things, you’re moving forward, and it’s just time for some of those things to happen, so as individuals, we always have to understand our seasons, if that makes sense, so it’s just going through those processes.

0:13:45.1 S2: Yeah, you’re absolutely right. I’m so glad you bring that up because not only does our brain believe what we tell it, it believes what other people tell us, and if we’re not really careful about the influence we add into our lives, it impacts us, and we have to be careful of who we surround ourselves with…

0:14:04.5 S1: Right. So going into 2021, what do you think will be the trends for successful leaders?

0:14:12.2 S2: Good question. To you ask great questions. I think that one of the trends is going to be flexibility than agility, and I think that as leaders we like predictability and we like saying… I’m gonna tell you to do this and you’re going to do it, and then the outcome is exit, this is just a recipe. And it’s really unpredictable right now, and I think that when we’re learning to lead an unpredictable leadership, we’re really creating innovation or creating the opportunity to be open to whichever way is the most important way to go. And so I think that that’s something that some of our great leaders that have gone through 2020 started to get comfortable and being really flexible, whether that is a flexible work environment where that is flexible how we market to our customer, if that’s flexible of how we get our product from A to B, it can be anywhere, but we’re going to have to learn to lead in unpredictable times because that’s the future, and that’s… Again, goes back to how we were taught to lead 20 plus years ago in the last century, it was very predictable, and this is how we do it, and it was very scripted leadership and very scripted actions.

0:15:29.9 S2: And that is not going to work in the future. I’m just sorry, it’s just not going to…

0:15:34.5 S1: You are absolutely right, and I’ve heard some people say, Oh, we should stop saying new norm, but this is not how I mean, or this is not. It is… And then if we think all the way back to when 9110 happened, the security around the world, airforce, everything, it was different, and everybody was preparing, okay, I have to… If I’m taking a flight, I know I need to show up three, four hours early to go through this process when I have no rush and all of that, but over time, we’ve started to get used to our new normal it, as of today, it’s still the case the security is the same, we’ve just gotten used to it, and we prepare to know, Okay, I get out of my shoes, Take me that I forgot, do this, I do it. So you’re preparing, so you could take your time to redress after you go through security and gather all of your things and then start walking, so you know that you have to prepare for those things now, and we’ve got to that new normal, and now we’re going to have a new normal. And it’s gonna be different for a lot of people, but there’s also going to be an overall new normal for everybody as well, so I think with that is where people have to really understand that, Okay, it is what it is, this is what we have to do now, and especially in business, we have to change our processes, we have to change our way of thinking, we can’t keep said, I’m old school, I’m gonna keep doing this, or It worked for me back 10 years ago, so I know it’s gonna work from me now.

0:17:16.3 S1: Okay, alright, I’m glad that you said that we all have to prepare for that and understand what’s coming at it is what it is. What would you say to those that want to stick with… It worked for me two years ago or three years ago, and I’m not gonna change ’cause it works for me then, what would you say to someone that just refuse to see… You have to change the way that you operate.

0:17:56.6 S2: So you think that what I would say is, What are your priorities? One of the things I coach on is false beliefs or false goals, and so a false goal is, I don’t wanna change, but the goal really is to be successful, so what I would say is what truly are your goals and what are those steps in those goals, and that’s how you start to lead and become a person who can lead in unpredictable times, because that’s just… That’s normal right now is unpredictable times. You have to say what is the actual finish line, and am I okay with whatever… Within bounds, of course, whatever has to happen, but we’re focusing on the finish line, and I think leaders that don’t wanna change, they’re focused on the next step, they’re not focused on the actual priority of whatever the end game is. And so what I would say to them is, What is your priority? Is your priority, your ego attached to who you’ve been in the past, or is your priority the end result at your company or your… You wanna hit whatever it is, but leaders have a lot of false priorities, we say, want one thing, but our actions are not anywhere near that, and so we have to get really honest with what their priority is, and then whatever those actions already get there is what they are.

0:19:20.7 S1: Wow, how do you approach behavior change difficult… More professional development educators.

0:19:29.2 S2: So obviously, I’m very passionate about understanding the brain, and so I think that is something that is different in my approach. The other thing is, we as companies, and I did this when I was running big HR teams, we would hire someone and we would have them come in and we throw a bunch of executives in a room for three days and we would expect them to come out new people, it was like an easy bake oven and we just threw a man and set the dials and out they came exactly how we wanted them, it doesn’t work, and it’s just money out the window, and it’s wasting people’s time. And so when I started thinking about adult education and adult learning and really changing how people lead in the work environment, I had to start to think about why it didn’t work, because that’s… What’s important to know? So I basically sat down and made a list of why traditional training hasn’t worked in corporate in the past, and there’s a long list of different things, and then I re-engineered it so that it addressed those issues, and so one of those issues is adults don’t learn in big chunks, they can’t sit in a room all day and do one task right at you.

0:20:44.6 S2: I Can… Everyone list, you know you have to sit in a chair all day or you’re instantly like mad, which means you’re not using your prefrontal cortex between… You cannot learn. So all of our education in the way we help organizations change behavior patterns is through drip content every six or 12-month program, we do two or three-hour training at the… Say at the beginning of the month, we give them implementation work because if you’re an adult, if you do not use what you’ve learned right away and actually apply it, then you will won’t stick. And so then we have people practice it, then we come back and we talk about it and we debrief, and then we start to learn something new, and so instead of taking three days and shoving someone in when they’re gonna be remember one out of a million things you taught them, we’re spreading it out over time so that people can actually use it and reinforce it, we’re also keeping people the business, and in today’s world, it’s expensive to pull your top performers out of your business for two, three days at a time, a week. It’s very expensive and they’re distracted because they’re worried about their responsibilities, and so not only does this methodology help the adult learner actually retain and change, it also protects the business, and I think that’s a big important thing we have to think about in today’s world is you can’t unplug and hid for several days in today’s business.

0:22:10.5 S2: So how do you address that? We also are really passionate about coaching, because leadership, I always say is about 20% skill, about 80% mental, and if you’re not doing the mental work about change, which is just like the question, you just ask, what… How much if someone doesn’t wanna change, if you’re not doing the mental workaround changing behaviors or growth behaviors, then it also doesn’t stick, and so we take all those concepts and when we build education for organizations, we really think about How does that adult learn and how can we truly change their behaviors based on what we know about that?

0:22:49.3 S1: Wow, it’s crazy how… You’re absolutely right, with adults, we can’t sit for long, we have to learn a small permit and do the hands-on and all of that, and we look at kids called five-year-old… Their attention span is not that great. And you gotta do it a little bit of time. And here you are as an adult doing the same thing, thing… It’s crazy how… That made a circle. And the same thing we have to do. Implement stack. Wow, I know you have a passion for conversation intelligence. What is it?

0:23:30.2 S2: So it’s really understanding the neuroscience of the mind and understanding your language as a leader or as a peer, as anyone, any conversation you’re having, it’s really understanding how do your words, actions, how do you enter into that conversation so that you’re using language that promotes the right chemicals and the person’s mind, Li-oxytocin, Lido. Mine hit all the good stuff. And so that they can really engage with you in a way that’s creative and collaborative and for yourself, understanding how does your brain work unconsciously and how does that impact your internal thoughts, your internal actions, and really starting to lead in a way that works with the neuroscience of the mind and not working against it, because like I said earlier, a lot of things that we’ve been taught to say and do really promotes fear in the brain, and we’re shutting down the best part of what we need. We learn in the pre-frontal cortex, we create, we innovate, we control our emotions, all that stuff’s happening there, and as soon as someone’s permanent brain and fear kicks in, that shuts down, and so you think of that old school, if someone’s not hitting their numbers yet, you get on.

0:24:52.2 S2: And you yell at them. You tell them this and you tell them that. Well, as soon as you do that, everything that you need, creativity and innovation to get the cell just got turned off, is we have to help people understand that their language is either getting them the results they want or they’re not…

0:25:11.3 S1: Wow. What can someone expect when they contact you and wanna work with you because we’re hearing a line of conversation about studying the brain, the different triggers, your frontal, all of these different things, someone may be like, Oh, you know, she’s gonna come up to machines gonna track me. What did they expect when they come to work with you, is there an initial test or a survey that you give them to give you, so type of baseline to know where… Start… What is the first step? When they come to work with you…

0:25:50.4 S2: So when I start working with an organization, the first thing we do is we really diagnose not only what their problems are, ’cause I really… I really don’t have concern about what our current problems are because they’re actually past tense. I say today, my problem is as well, that was actually yesterday’s problem that’s influencing me today, it’s really not… Today’s problem, that’s what I’ll talk about tomorrow. And so what I started to do is really talk to organizations about where are you going, and based on where you’re going, what type of leadership skills and competencies in way of work are needed to be successful there? And that allows us to then start to create programs and leadership and coaching that speaks to where we’re going, and I think that’s a big difference, but when I start working with people, they wanna start telling me all this stuff and I’m like, Well, where are we going? That’s what’s important, because let’s teach people… Let’s not teach people to fix yesterday’s problems, let’s teach them to be ready for tomorrow’s unpredictability, and so that’s one of the very first things we start to work with when we work with companies and when I do individual coaching, it’s very similar.

0:27:07.0 S2: It’s, where is your career going? What are your responsibilities, what are your goals, what do… Who do you have to be to be able to successfully do all of that and let’s move towards it… We never go backwards ’cause it really doesn’t matter, ’cause

0:27:22.8 S1: You’re absolutely right. And how can you stop somewhere from going backwards because what you just said today’s problem with yesterday, but we tend to sit in those into that bucket and, Oh, well, this happened because of this, this happened, Oh, because of this that happened, how can you pull someone out of that block is, Okay, we’re gonna dump you out of this bucket and we’re gonna store a flat on the ground and start fresh.

0:27:51.9 S2: Yeah, and those are like those little ruts we getting Russ, we just keep telling yourself the same story over and over again. And so what we do, or what I like to do is really say, Let’s rewrite the story. If you believe all of this to be true, what if none of it was, what would be the actual truth, start to rewrite the story and say Someone is stuck because they really struggled with their boss in the past, and they wanna have a better relationship with that person, then it’s reminding them that the story you are creating in your head about your boss right or wrong, you know, it’s just the story that is holding you in a place where you can’t get there, and so let’s now create a new story about your supervisor, so that when you interact with them, you’re coming from a baseline with that story, because as long as you’re coming from that old baseline of, I hate him or her, their men, they’re not smart enough, whatever all that is. And you’re never going to get there. And so we help create new stories or things that we can at least start to accept and then start to build off of that and kind of ladder out of it, you can’t…

0:29:04.9 S2: If you have a horrible situation, you can’t… Tomorrow, I think it’s the best thing ever. But could you make a couple of steps towards IT, getting a better place, make a few more steps, get in a better place, and oftentimes we have to ladder through those situations. Wow. Great, great advice, great advice.

0:29:23.5 S1: What is one idea a leader can use today to create innovation thinking within their team?

0:29:30.3 S2: Oh, so one of the things I love to do with organizations when they start to think about leading different… And they start to think about How do I lead towards innovation, which means How do I be collaborative, and how do I… Asking questions I don’t know the answer to, and how do I lead in a way that lower sphere. And so one of the first exercises, I think, is a lot of fun, is we have to do something that feels really different and awkward, so everyone’s like, this is going to be different, and so we find a problem in the organization, let’s just say, certain product has been struggling and you’ve gotta figure out how to get the numbers up with that product, so what you can do then is Call your team and say, Hey, meet me in whatever room or meet me on Zoom, if we’re still working remotely, more than likely, right. And I want you to bring me the most ridiculous crazy in saying ideas on how to get product X out the door. We’ve lost market share. We’ve gotta get it back. I want you to bring me the most insane ideas you can think of, and in fact, I will reward the person who has the most ridiculous idea, and the reason we set it up that way is ’cause if you tell people, Hey, meet me in this room or whatever, and we’ve gotta talk about this product, it’s not selling it, I wanna know why you have created fear, so they are not gonna be able to get creative and innovative to tell you because they can’t use their part of the brain allows that.

0:30:57.9 S2: But if you say, I’m gonna reward you for thinking big, I’m not gonna judge you, I’m not gonna judge your ideas, because I am actually gonna judge them if they’re not big enough, I need something ridiculous, like, Let’s get this product to Mars. And that opens people up to think… More creativity or more creativity. Then as people are sharing these ideas in the meeting, just keep throwing them up on the board, don’t judge them, try to make them even more crazy, like if they say they wanna do this and everyone’s like, How can we even make this even more insane? Keep thinking big. Even if it is impossible. Don’t say that. Don’t go Well, I really couldn’t do that. Like, Oh no, could we do that? Because what happens at the end of that exercise, you’re gonna find some common themes across all of those ideas, and those common things are actually probably your problem and what you need to deal with. And then that gives you a starting point of where you can go. But if you don’t go and try to think so huge, you’re never gonna find really what you need because your brain will limit itself because it won’t wanna be judged in the room, and then afterwards as people are driving home and they’re thinking, Oh God, I hope I didn’t say anything too ridiculous.

0:32:09.4 S2: Make sure you also reward people, it’s probably just bragging rights for all their crazy ideas, but send them an email afterwards or something and just say, I love all of the ideas you guys really stretched at this time, love as you think of more of these ideas, please continue to share them with me. That starts to create innovation in the workplace and starts to remove judgment from ideas to drive the business.

0:32:34.1 S1: Wow, let’s flip it on the other side. For an employee that is at a company and you have these bosses that… I’m the boss in. The boss in the boss. And everyone knows that, but you have people in that they understand their job, they are talented, they have these skills, their self to… Are they taking a course, whatever the situation may be, but in that I’m just saying, Oh wow, I really have someone here that understands what’s going on, and I don’t have to worry about that person, they’re actually giving me ideas to help move forward. What do you say to a person that’s struggling with working with a of life that whether they’re the owner of the company, they are just one of the executives, but you have that person that’s constantly pushing you down, it’s almost like they’re hearing like, Okay, well, you can’t look better than me, so what would you say that someone is struggling with that?

0:33:43.7 S2: So what I would say is, those are tough situations, but there are some techniques that you can try, and even some of those most tyrant bosses out there, there’s always one person, a company that seems to can tell them the truth and they don’t respond poorly to that person, and everyone’s like, Why can that one person say it, but no one else can… Right, ’cause they created a different relationship with that person, and so what you have to do is create a different type of relationship and you have to come at it from a point of curiosity and getting them curious in what you know, ’cause the brain is curious and if it thinks it knows everything, you have to get it curious. And so, if you know why a product isn’t selling or you know why there’s a problem at the company, but you are scared to tell your boss, but you know you can make a difference and you’re afraid that he or she’s just gonna go off on you, so you are choosing to be quiet. What I would say is, go in and say, Hey, I have some information that I think you would find very valuable.

0:34:49.2 S2: I’ve got some really good ideas, what I think might work, and I think they could impact the business, and I… To be honest, I’m a little nervous to share them with you because it’s looking at things very differently, but I have the data and I have the research, are you open to hearing some of this… Because you’re telling them, I’ve got some ideas. You’re being honest around, I’m not sure if you’re gonna like him. So you’re telling that person. So there’s some curiosity there. She’s a little afraid. Why is that? Do I need to listen a little bit more? She has added a back it up, and then you ask for that permission, and then if they’re like, Yeah, yeah, yeah, you can tell me anything and you’re not quite sure they’re yet go, Is this the right day? Are you at a place today that you wanna hear this… Yeah, and get them to say yes. And if you start to tell them and showing the data and they’re still combative and you know, you’re like, No, this is true, and they’re just addicted to their own viewpoint, their own need to be… Right then you just remind them, say, I know this is difficult to hear, but you committed to looking at this in the new way.

0:36:03.9 S2: Are you sure this is still a good time for you to look at this in a new way? And let’s see what they have to say, and if they say no, then accept that they’re not in a place… If they say, Oh, you’re right, okay, okay. Then what you’re doing is you’re building a new relationship with that person where you can be that one person that’s honest with them, because you’re not forcing it on them, you’re not telling them that You’re wrong, you’re going permission to show up and be honest.

0:36:30.5 S1: I like that. Get permission. Get promotion like that. What is a common power play that keeps teams from realizing their business goals?

0:36:41.3 S2: So I think one of the things I see that’s really common is that when you think of a group of leaders, so a cross-functional group of leaders where that’s executives or directors or managers. What happens is when we start to work together, we go into protection mode, we wanna protect our own job, because again, we don’t wanna lose our job, we gotta look smart, we got a to wanna get in trouble, and we also start to protect our team, and that is very natural. Again, it’s very tribal, if I’m gonna protect me and my team over anything else, and there’s some things in that, which isn’t bad, but what happens and why there’s so many power plays in groups of leaders is because they’re so busy protecting themselves and their team, they’re not protecting the actual objective of the organization, and that’s what has to change, teams have to be so protective over the objective or the goal that five different departments are working on, that they stand together around that and then their teams start to follow and suit with that. And so what you have when you start protecting the objective, you have more collaboration and less finger-pointing, you have the ability to tell someone, Here’s what I know, I’m not an expert in marketing, but here’s something I’ve heard and seen, and you’re able to exchange ideas openly and that starts to create momentum, but because of who we are built to be, we go into these meetings and if a big difficult project’s going off the rails instead of taking ownership as a collective group, we set around the meeting and we point fingers at each other, Well, your team didn’t do this and your team didn’t do that, and well, that’s this and that’s that, but that’s why we have so much infighting in the workplace is because we’re not protecting the overall goal, we’re protecting ourselves in our groups.

0:38:40.3 S2: Now.

0:38:41.4 S1: I’m at this… We could go on and on and on with this conversation, I outer gonna have fun as texts and girls are so much good information and I so much that needed to hear, and you’re giving a great perspective on how to shift… Not keep sitting into that same thought process or should acuity thing, you’re giving them some options to say, Okay, let’s change this. You have the power to change it. You have the power to shift this. And I tell people, I decide on who I wanna give my energy to. Why get into an argument about something? Whether I agree or disagree, but there are times that you want us to say, Okay, who do… We’re gonna debate this. But sometimes it’s like, okay, it’s what it is. When I’m moving on, I must put my energy somewhere else it into this right now. So it’s understanding how to ship… Find it a different way, and I wanna thank you for sharing that today. That was great, that was great.

0:39:51.6 S2: That very welcome. It’s been a lot of fun.

0:39:54.4 S1: I let people know how they can connect with you. Your social media, your website. If they wanna say, I need Jen in my life.

0:40:03.1 S2: So you can find us at We have a lot of free resources there, feel free to download and enjoy those. I also love to always continue the conversation on LinkedIn, and you can find me at Jen Thornton ACC and connect with me there and drop me a message, and I’d love to hear from you.

0:40:24.1 S1: Wow, great, great conversation. Thank you so much.

0:40:27.8 S2: Thank you, have a great afternoon.

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