Does Your Team Lack Creativity and Inspiration Because Of Over-Management?

Learn how over-management creates an environment that lacks creativity and inspiration.

Learn more about Gary Wilbers’ new book, Cultivate Positive Culture: 10 Actions to Faithful Living here.

00:02 S2: Wondering how your mindset affects your life, how to bring more energy into your business in life, millions of people around the world ask these same questions daily, you are in the right place, learn practices that will help give your life the meaning and success you’ve been searching for, welcome to the charge podcast, teaching you how to create habits around real goals every day, practical life advice from those who made it. Here’s your host, Gary will verse. I am super excited. My new book is lunch, cultivate positive culture, 10 actions the faithful living is now available for purchase. As a listener to the charge podcast, I would love for you to get your copy of the book, you can go where you purchase books are better yet, go to my site and order the book directly from us, and I’ll give you free shipping and handling since you’re helping us with sharing our message to others, just go to cultivate positive culture dot com to get your copy today. Thanks, report supporting the charge podcast by purchasing the book directly from us. At the end of this podcast, I’ll share a brief extra from the book, are you frustrated and stressed out with your professional and personal life, the charge podcast will help you get recharged.

01:26 S2: Yes, we are in the last quarter of 2020, to start out the fourth quarter guest list, we found some interesting people who will share their journey to finding charge each day in business in life, make sure to listen in each week and see how you can apply the lessons they share with us as chargers in your own life. The goal of the charge podcast is to help you realize what is most important in your life, chargers are committed to finding how each day they can make their life better, and the willingness to learn, grow and become the person they were meant to be. I think this quote I coined in my new book, cultivate positive culture, sums it up, give yourself permission to charge each day to become the person you were meant to be. You made a great choice in listening to this podcast, remember the podcast is named charge after my mantra, create habits around real goals every day, let’s get recharged in this podcast, I influence a positive culture in your life each day. Are you ready? Welcome charges. We’re glad to have you again this week for another great guest, our goal each and every week is to find different guests with different viewpoints, and I think you’re gonna enjoy our guest today, Jim Thornton, she’s developed her expertise in talent strategy and leadership professional development over her exciting 20-plus year career as an HR professional.

02:51 S2: She’s led international teams across Greater China, Mexico in the UK and the United States, to expand into new markets, managing franchise retailers and developing key strategic partnerships all the while exceeding business objectives and financial results. The rapid growth of our consulting firm, 304 coaching has been largely due to Jennifer’s unconventional approach to building innovative for-force development solutions for companies who are facing breakthrough growth and accelerated hiring patterns. She is a sought after beer strategist, specializing in startups and large value-based organization, she is sisters clients in building talent strategies that complement their business strategies to ensure exponential growth. She lives in Texas with her family and rescues in her free time, she enjoys reading Historic Preservation, remodeling, Arlo and spending time with friends. Jenni, great to have you on the charge podcast. Welcome.

03:53 S1: Thanks for having me.

03:54 S2: Well, it is wonderful to have you… Lots of experience, we’re gonna get into that talent and hiring and some of those pieces, but before I do, I love to ask every guest the same question, it’s my mantra, charge, create habits around real goals every day. What habit or habits do you think has led to success in your life…

04:15 S1: I think there’s two habits that I keep with me every single day that’s led to success, number one is I never go to bed without learning something new, every single day, I have just a high level of curiosity, and I have to feed that curiosity, and the second thing is, I hire experts to be experts, and I stay very focused on where my interests lie and where I do my best work, and I hire people around me who get to do the exact same thing every day.

04:45 S2: Well, that makes it really easy then to do your part, isn’t it, because you’re always got those experts and you’re really able to have them benefit you, so I’m kind of curious, then we’re gonna dig into that sum in our conversation, because I think some people forget that hiring is more than just getting a person on board and a… You talk a lot about the talent Cliff. What do you think that talent Cliff is?

05:11 S1: So over my corporate career, I worked for one organization for a lot of years and we launched new brands all the time, and some were successful and some failed, and I was always curious about why is that… The product was great, or, this was awesome. Why did it fail? And then I started researching other companies that were fast growing and some made it and some didn’t, and I’m very fascinated by stories around the CEO who started a company and then step back and let someone else manage it, and now they’re just through my own curiosity and learning, I realized what was happening in my own experiences with my own… Watching my own companies and watching others is that people have these amazing ideas and they hire incredible talent to come in and make this idea come true, and then because they’re so talented and because the idea is so fantastic, their business takes off, and so they start chasing the business and they forget to chase the talent and they forget to support the talent, and what starts to happen is the business out grows the skill set of the talent in the business, and when that happens, you start managing in a way that’s unproductive, you start managing with a dictator type style, very high compliance, and your top talent, either one will stop thinking or they’re gonna leave, and then you’re left with the Yes sir, no ma’am type talent, and those people aren’t driving your business, and that’s when you go off the talent Cliff and that’s when companies start to really struggle with their business, and it had nothing to do with their original idea, it had everything to do with how they looked at their talent strategy.

06:51 S2: I think that’s very interesting because I think… I work with a lot of small business owners, and when they start out, it’s only a few of them, and then that grows to 10, 15, 20, and it becomes a real struggle to get the right people on the team of what they need. And you talk a lot about that, how that talent strategy complements the business strategy, and I think that becomes a critical component, but I wanna know, what do you mean by that to really make sure we get that right talent strategy so we can really complement what our business strategy is…

07:25 S1: Yeah, so a talent strategy is really understanding what work needs to be done in your organization, how does it need to be done, not only the what but how, and then ensuring that we’re bringing in the right people to do that, and we are fostering a growth environments those people continue to grow with the business, one of the biggest mistakes I see small businesses do is they get overwhelmed, there’s a lot of work, the business is growing, and so they throw payroll at the problems, just hire someone and they don’t take the time to really think about what work needs to be done and where that work needs to be done and thinking of creative solutions to get that work done, and so they just start hiring bodies and then before they know it, their payroll percentage to their business is out of control. Works not being done efficiently. And then they think, Oh well, it’s the employee’s fault, and it’s not every hiring decision we make as our own, and we own each of those. Yeah.

08:20 S2: I think that becomes a real key because of when we hire, we just hire a person, they just fill a position instead of what is really most important in that work, and I think any organization has that challenge, I’m thinking of an organization that I’m working with right now, that is having some of that, they’ve had some great success, but they’ve seen lately that really… There’s a complacency in the organization, and it’s created a real challenge to him, so if I was that business owner and I was looking at my organization and I’m a little bit concerned about that complacency, how would you tell me about going about making that change to really… Have it be about the work and how the work is being done to be able to make those improvements. Yeah.

09:06 S1: A lot of complacency is driven by the leaders way of leading, and so often as leaders, we think we know how to do it, we are telling people what to do, we actually start getting pretty addicted to our own ego and our own views and our own skills. And so what happens is, we think teams are complacent, but they’re not… They’re just doing what they’re told to do. And because they’ve been told every move to make and they haven’t been inspired to think and to take on their role as a business owner and as someone who’s really passionate about the business, they just wait for someone to tell them what to do because that’s the culture we created… So it’s not complacency, it’s being uninspired and being so overly managed and overly controlled that they’re not allowed to think for themselves.

09:55 S2: Yeah, I think that becomes a real challenge is we get what we expect sometimes, and as leaders, we have to… My grandma used to always say when you point a finger at someone, three, a point in packets yourself, we really gotta take that picture of the mirror of who… Ourself, where we fit in there, so what would be some of those early signs that really we could kind of really point out with our leadership team or maybe even ourself, how we can change and really get the skill set that we need of those team members?

10:27 S1: Yeah, so some of the early signs that you’re gonna start having some issues with your talent is as a leader, you start saying things like, why am I always having to follow up on people, why are they complacent? Why has no one brought a new idea to me this week, why didn’t someone tell me that this product wasn’t selling because of ABC, when you start questioning your team, that’s when you know there’s some work to be done on thinking about the organization, thinking about the work, thinking about how you lead and how we’re hiring and designing the work to be done, and that is one of the most early indicators, and a lot of the organizations I talk to, there’s that moment of like, the rainbows are coming and its sun is shining and the business is amazing, and everyone’s excited, and that little sweet moment of time, that’s when you gotta go, well, everything is perfect. How am I going to think about this different… And what happens is we enjoy that moment so much that we think it’s gonna go on forever without maintenance and it just doesn’t… Yeah.

11:29 S2: Yeah. We’ve gotta be able to make changes, we gotta be able to adapt. And I think a key point of this is really that accountability, and part of that is the work that needs to be done and identifying that, but what have you seen or what is your experience with really trying to create that accountability of the work that does need to be accomplished.

11:48 S1: Yeah, and so I think a lot of it is thinking about how do we have conversations in the workplace, and the way our language is designed actually in the workplace, often times provoke fear in the brain, it’s a chemical response of, will I be judged? Will I lose my job? And that’s actually our primitive brain keeping us alive at its core, and when that is a trigger, then our prefrontal cortex shuts down, we can’t come up with collaborative ideas, we can’t be accountable ’cause we’re just so worried and setting in fear. And so the first thing we have to do if we wanna move towards high accountability is move our language to a place where people are collaborative or people’s voices are being heard, where we can be incredibly honest and have a lot of trust in that honesty, and that takes work, you have to really change the way that you say things and the way you’re using your language and work with the chemicals in the mind and not against them in traditional 20th century old school, 8 to 5 leadership really works against how the brain is designed to be creative and hold itself accountable.

12:55 S2: Yeah, I think that’s the real key is, and if you have that collaborative conversation, you’re communicating friend of mine, land Davy, we’ve had on the podcast before, I says a lot of people don’t have the conversations they need to have because they’re afraid it’s gonna generate conflict and her philosophy is, you can’t be comfortable until you’re uncomfortable, if you can’t talk about the uncomfortable things, you’re never gonna be comfortable in that as you move forward in an HR, they get to always deal with the uncomfortable because of course, they bring you the challenges if people have an HR department, they bring you those challenges, but I think that becomes… The real key is as leaders, we’ve gotta be more comfortable having those conversations that we need to be having in their every day conversations, and they don’t have to put that fear into it instead of, Let’s discuss what’s going on, what are our challenges that’s there, and being very open with them. What do you see… I guess I’m gonna ask you here is maybe where you could share, and I don’t… You don’t have to give any names to protect the people, but can you share a story or something that you’ve seen happen where it’s really benefit a company or one of the companies that you’ve worked with, where in the franchises, it’s made a real difference in them…

14:13 S1: Yeah, yeah, there’s this one organization I’ve been working with this year, and we actually engaged in February, not knowing what March would bring us in 2020, and so it was an interesting experience and to work with them for over this entire year because we thought things were like one way, and clearly they look at different… But what we’ve recognized with that organization is they were experts in their industry, and so they disrupted their industry and were incredibly successful being disruptors, but they didn’t have the expertise in designing work and expertise on how to think about hiring, they didn’t have good hiring practices and so what I’ve been able to do with them over the course of this year is put together an entire talent strategy, we re-worked how the entire team worked as a collective group, we got rid of costly in-market teams that weren’t busy enough, but yet there was too much for less people, and we created centers of excellence where we hired experts to do expert, so they got the productivity of the quality up, and we really worked on what did it mean to work for this organization? What were those values who are re-hiring and not only what could this person bring, but how are they going to do the work? These are very value-based organization, and it’s been fascinating to watch them grow and do…

15:40 S1: We do interviews together, we talk about candidates together, we get really honest about how to onboard people and think about how to manage them long-term, and you know this company, whether the storm so well, but I have no doubt it’s because they thought about the talent over the business and the talent took care of the business when it was tough, and now they’re coming out of it, and they’re doing better than they’ve ever done before.

16:06 S2: Yeah, and that becomes a real key is if you hire experts and then you have a strategy behind it, you’re more likely… You’re gonna get people that are attracted to that, so you’re gonna get high-level performers in that area, and I love the one thing that you talked about is you really… They define the values and what was important to them, so they know that, so when they’re interviewing, they’re getting that because I see too often, I see leaders and even business owners do it, they get emotionally involved with hiring someone and they like them. Well, it’s great, they like them, but the problem is that’s not gonna do anything for their performance, and they may have said one or two things that connects with them, and I’ve worked with many business owners, and I tell them, and I said, We’re not about emotionally getting involved, we’re trying to find out, Can they fulfill the position, the role that we actually have in the organization, I want every person I think is a great person no matter who they are, but in my hiring process, I wanna hire that real talent that’s there. I think that brings up in an interesting question I’d like to get your take on is today, of course, people have to do more remote work, and we’ve talked a little bit about accountability, but how does organizations really deal with that, that we see in the future that people are gonna have that luxury, have that capability.

17:30 S2: We know, just like you and I are on Zoom right now, seeing each other and we’re able to conduct business where we don’t have to be in the same office all the time, but as far as talent, how do you make sure that person has that capability, ’cause not everyone has the capability to work remotely…

17:48 S1: Yeah, there’s been so many conversations around this lately, and I think there’s a lot of ways to approach it, you know, I look at it as if you’ve hired the right people and they’re loving what they do and they’re respected, then the chances are they’re going to work remotely and be incredibly productive. I think for leaders going into this new phase of how we do business, they’re going to have to get attached to business results over hours in the seat, and in our old way is everyone had to be at their office and their chair at a certain time. You punch the clock and people were valued by how many hours they work, they weren’t valued by their results, and that’s gonna be the biggest mindset, which is someone’s gonna have to say, Here’s what I expect you to do, and this is what needs to be done, and how and when and the dates and get it done. And if you asked a CEO, would you rather reward people for results or hours in the seat, they’re gonna tell you, I’d rather reward results, but their actions and words in their beliefs do not back that up, and that’s our biggest mind switch, ongoing remotes.

18:54 S1: We’ve gotta get attached to results.

18:57 S2: Yeah, I love that. That one there, I made a big star as I was right now, business results over IRS in the seat. I mean, really think about it, ’cause if they’re getting the results and it takes one person 40 hours to get that, but another person 20 hours, you want the results because then they can be working on other things with you in your organization to make it even that much better. So when we’re thinking about developing a talent plan, I think that’s the key… Let’s come back to that. Is that talent plan? And we’re trying to develop that, where do we start to really develop that talent plan for our organization?

19:33 S1: Yeah, the first thing is we have to get honest about the work, and this involves the executive group, whoever is setting the tone for the company, and the reason we have to start with getting honest about the work is number one, when you look at the work, we do… Some of it isn’t necessary, and that’s the first thing we have to do is clean out unnecessary work, and when I sat down and talk to executives and we start talking about what’s important… I always say is this, is this mission critical? If we didn’t do this, it would impact ourselves, Is this a nice to do, because there’s a lot of nice to do that we need to do, or is this habit and we just think we’re supposed to… We’ve gotta break that habit or… And this is where they just always go up, is it vanity work? Because executives expect so much vanity work, and a vanity work includes, oh, I know that we have this new software and this report reads this way, but I don’t like that, I like the way the old report reads, and so you’re paying someone three hours a week to redesign a report because you don’t wanna learn how to read a new one, that’s vanity work, and then that person who’s doing that works like, Why do I have to re-do this? Just so they can see it.

20:41 S1: When I can just hit a button and so they lose their purpose. And so we have to get really clear on vanity work and removing that vanity work and getting clear on the what needs to be done to drive the business, and then how do we think about that work? Is it full-time as a part-time, is it a land… There’s a lot of different ways to look at how to do the work once you get really clear on what needs to be done.

21:04 S2: Yeah, I think that becomes a real key, but I think the part of it is, is we’ve gotta realize the right people gotta be in the room, right? And that’s some of the discussion that has to happen, and you have to have a very open leadership team that they’re willing to discuss that, and I’m kind of curious, when you look at that, who needs to be in the room when they’re kind of designing that talent strategy, to be able to make it really roll out because of course, HR likes to do this, but the problem is if HR comes out and says, We’re rolling this out, it’s normally not that successful, there’s

21:37 S1: Gotta be the right people in the room… Yeah, the right people always have to be in the room for change, and when I look at the executives in the group, no matter how small or large organization, they have to be bought in, and they have to be willing to get honest… I spend a lot of time with individual and team executive coaching and pushing back on beliefs of the past and really trying to get leaders to think futuristic, because we all know the world is changing more than it’s ever changed, and as soon as we get attached to a habit or a way of work, we’ve out dated our company, and how do we move our mindset to a very futuristic… And then this is how we do it now, but I am open to tomorrow being different and more progressive, and when you put the right people in the room and they get open to saying, I’m looking towards the future and not how anything’s ever done. That’s when the magic happens, and that’s when we can get incredibly efficient and we can have a lot of fun, that’s when you have fun at work, when you’re progressive and your new ideas are coming out and you’re collaborative, and you’re getting things done, and you see the business results, that’s when people have fun, and that’s when people stick around…

22:46 S2: Well, now let’s take it to the other part is, we’ve got that collaborate effort within our leadership team or our executive team, and we’re getting them to change that mindset, the only thing is, is they’re still the staff that those people report to, those leaders now they’ve gotta take it to them, what suggestions do you give to help them really bring it down to those other areas to be able to improve that communication and to get them to buy in of the changes that’s coming about…

23:15 S1: Yeah, it’s about obviously communicating those changes, but then it’s also about communicating and contracting on new ways of work, and so if I’ve had a boss who told me how to think for five years and then today, you know the boss comes in and says, I’m gonna need you to think on your own. I’m gonna be like, really, you really want me to do that. I’m not sure if that’s what you want me to do. So the mind is saying, I don’t think so. And so we have to learn about language about contracting, new ways of work, and so you have those types of meetings and the supervisors like, I want you to start telling me the honest truth, and here’s how I’m gonna ask questions, and here’s… When you don’t feel like I’m listening to you, here’s what I want you to say back to me, and so that they start to get new language, so that they start to change how they work and think, and so the productivity changes in the relationship changes and the results and accountability change.

24:07 S2: Well, this is some great conversation, and I think there’s multiple ways that we could continue on in this process, but as we’re getting up on that time before we’ve gotta go to the recharge around, I think… I think I’ll leave it more. When you think about HR and that talent side of it that we’ve been discussing, what would be… What would you share with someone right now, they’re kinda here in what we said, but what would you give them as the first three steps that they should move forward, and if it’s more than three, that’s fine. But what would you share with them, how would they start to implement this into their organization?

24:42 S1: Yeah, the first thing you wanna start to do is become a spectator of your company, start watching, listening without judgment, without assumptions, without, Oh, I need to tell them how to do this, be a spectator of your company, because when you look at it with fresh eyes and ears, you will start to see the things that you’re like, Man, how did I miss that? So I think that’s the very first thing. The second thing is really look who is on your team that you know will have honest conversations with you and invite them in to conversations and ask, What do you think we’re doing right, what do you think we gotta improve on, start asking questions and start learning, and I think the third thing is to really think about how you lead and how are your actions getting the results that you don’t want, because that is what happens. People respond to our leadership and that then we get upset because they do… And like, be careful what you wish for, kind of thing. But if people can start being spectators, they can start opening up more conversations, they’ll be really surprised what they see and what they’re able to move the needle on very quickly.

25:54 S2: Yeah, some great suggestions there and leaders, I hope you’re hearing that and business owners, because now is the time, and one thing that I think you made a mention of, Jen, and we know that’s happening, is the world’s changing. And it’s changed even more. We’re in the fourth quarter of 2020 now, and 2021 is gonna be different. And maybe there won’t be a pandemic, let’s hope we get past that pandemic, but there still will be challenges within your business, and are you willing to change and adjust your organization because it’s not the same… We started a new decade at the beginning this year, just think what the world’s gonna look like by 20, 30, and I’ve taken clients through before in 10 years, what has to change in your organization? What has to change in your company? So that you are here in 2030, because think of of how many organizations are an extinct from 2010 to 2020 because they were not willing to change, and the people’s side of it becomes huge, and I think that becomes a real exciting part for organizations are… It is scary as all get out. So, Jen, I think you really help us with some of those suggestions that you gave us, let’s jump into the recharge around, I’d like to get your feedback on some questions that I ask every guest.

27:12 S2: We talked a little bit about this in leadership of how you believe mindset affects them, but I’m gonna ask you for yourself, how does your mindset affect your daily living…

27:23 S1: Oh, I mean, everything I do is about the mindset, you know, every day I wake up and I think about who do I need to be today? To make sure that I’m there for my team and my clients. And my family and my friends. And it’s a question I ask myself every day.

27:37 S2: Yeah, and that becomes a real key as a leader, if you’re willing to adjust and change instead of, Oh, there’s something else that’s new, you’re saying, How is this gonna benefit? Is you’re really able to change it in the same way what you talked about personally for our family and friends were able to make that difference also, what do you do daily to bring energy in your life? Yeah.

27:58 S1: I am a huge animal person, and to bring energy in my life, I am with my rescues every day, I love my rescue dogs, I can watch silly cat and dog videos on YouTube all the time, but really to bring energy as I look at animals and their unconditional love and that brings me energy.

28:16 S2: So you have a dog here. What other animals do you have… Yeah.

28:20 S1: We have three rescue dogs to rescue cats, so it’s a handful. Be careful what you wish for when you rescue a good… Egos unpunished.

28:31 S2: Well, that’s great, thanks for sharing that. What’s the number one connection or relationship that’s made the biggest impact on your life?

28:39 S1: Oh, thought leaders. I have a couple of thought partners in my life, and the people that I really trust, to be honest with me, I can take ideas to them, I can just dream big with them, but I have two people in my life that they’re my thought partners, and that’s what I call them, and those relationships mean the world to me. Yeah, congratulations on that. And that’s something that I want you to think about. Do you have that thought leader in your life that can really… You can ask some of those tough questions and get true honest feedback from them.

29:12 S2: What advice has influenced you the most in your life… This

29:16 S1: Visit influenced me the most in my life. Is from a supervisor I had really early on, and she taught me to stay ahead and staying ahead has been a huge piece of my success, and I don’t get behind, and staying ahead has let me handle good days and bad days and everything in between, but getting ahead of your life and staying ahead of the work is what works for us.

29:45 S2: Excellent advice. How about a book that you like and share why you like it?

29:49 S1: Oh, I’m an avid reader. That’s a big question. One of the books that I recently rather actually listened to is talking to strangers by Malcolm Gladwell. It just really opened my eyes to how we view people, and we’ve talked a lot about the interviewing process that has a lot of our human nature in it, and this book speaks to it, I think the book is fantastic for everyone. I have

30:16 S2: Not read that one yet, I’m gonna have to get that one though, ’cause I love Malcom work, so I’m sure it’s great, and if you’re driving right now or doing something and you can’t write that down, we’ll have it in show notes for you charge Podcast dot com. Well, you’ve bought made through the Goulet. But how about the last question? What legacy do you wanna leave the world?

30:37 S1: I want to believe a legacy where I help leaders make a difference in the work environment because those individuals go home to families, and when we are confident in providing for our family, we treat our families better, therefore we’ve treated the world better, and I really wanna make sure, that we’re creating the next generation of healthy progressive open-minded humans.

31:01 S2: Well, Jen, you have definitely done your legacy today with the charge podcast, ’cause I call them the Chargers, well, they’re leaders in their own life, and you’ve made a difference today, really talking about talent, and even if you’re not in charge of any people… I hope you realize this conversation was still practical for you, because each one of us have to lead ourselves, and how are we leading that when we’re looking at our talent, what are we bringing to the team? Each one of those, and Jen really shared some practical tips that you can really implement in your life and really realize that the world is changing. So are we changing with it? And that becomes the real key, I think, is we’ve changed and we develop, then we make better leaders for ourself, and like you said, we go home the family, friends and others, and then you impact those people, it’s the true ripple effect that they talk about Gadi can’t thank you enough for saying yes to being on the charge podcast.

31:57 S1: Thank you for having me. It was a pleasure. You

31:59 S2: Share with them again how they would reach out to you… I almost forgot that because if they wanna reach out to you and connect with you, I want them to be able to do it, and we’ll have it all in show notes for him too, but share how they can reach you in…

32:11 S1: They can reach me through our website at, and love to connect with people and start a conversation on LinkedIn, and you can find me at Jen Thornton ACC, and

32:22 S2: Jin has lots of other areas of expertise to we really developed in the HR side of it, but if you’re looking at some other areas. She has all that information on our website. A very nice website, so please go check her out and connect with her, and you may see that you need her services, check out our services and connect with her chargers. I hope you enjoyed our podcast again, we always try to bring special guests that it’s gonna bring a different viewpoint than others, and today I think we really hit on a Hot Topic, Human Resources, HR, really, it’s about hiring the experts that Jen talked about, instead of just hiring people, when we hire experts, it makes our job a lot easier, is that leader that’s leading them, so chargers, I hope you give that some thought, take some notes on it, and if you have any questions, go back to charge Podcast dot com and Chris will have detailed notes for you about the podcast, please like and share the podcast with others. And we’ll see you back here next week. Make it a great day. Yes, we’ve launched cultivate positive culture to actions of faithful living.

33:28 S2: Let me share a short description of the book with you, Lloyd, a truck driver for Ford trucking, he is a random and cantor with death while making his way back home, Lloyd who is short on faith and options, finds himself in the largest downward spire of his life, he meets an unraveled who see something in him that Lloyd couldn’t find on his own together through a new sense of faith and reason. Lloyd discovers his life’s calling. Now, I want you to get your copy, so go to cultivate positive culture dot com, and thanks for supporting the book, remember, we’ll have all the details in show notes a charge Podcast dot com, check it out. And I look forward to seeing you next time. Make it a great day. Chargers, we have our first sponsor for the charge podcast, we welcome Paul it to the show, and want you to check out their services. Most companies don’t have time for a wellness program, Paul hit is your mobile turn key wellness solution to guide your employees to healthier lifestyle, support your team and achieving their full potential, so you can go back to running your business. Check them out at pulido com, that’s P-U-L-S-E-H-I-I-T dot com.

34:43 S2: It will also be on the charge Podcast dot com show, not. This podcast is indoor life doesn’t just stop to continue your inspiring journey, head over to charge Podcast dot com and access all the tools and resources mentioned on today’s show, if you enjoyed this episode, consider sharing with somebody who may also benefit from the advice provided that’s charge Podcast dot com until next time. Charge in business and life.

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