Join Andrew Lees with his guest, Jennifer Thornton of 304 Coaching as they talk about talent strategy and everything about getting the right person on the team. In this episode, Jennifer shares her experience in building 304 Coaching and what she believed was the most important lesson she had to take to make her entrepreneurial life possible. Jennifer also discusses why she believes that every firm should have a talent strategy and not just depend on resumes. All of those and more as you tune in.
In this episode you will learn:
- Growing up in the retail industry and waking up to KPIs.
- Provide experiences for your team, expand how they see their roles.
- Be honest about what work you need to get done to who you’re hiring.
- A leader’s role to grow and scale the team.
- Keeping everyone’s opinion out of your head and staying true to what you believe in.
- …and so much more.
0:00:01.3 S1: Welcome to That Entrepreneur Life, a podcast about entrepreneurship that takes you from idea to launch and beyond. Each week your hosts Andrew Lees and Clint McPherson discuss different business topics aimed at adding value to any entrepreneur’s journey. Welcome back everyone to another episode of That Entrepreneur Life. I’m Andrew Lees and I’m usually joined by my co-host, Clint McPherson, and he’s not gonna be here today, so it will just be myself, but I am very excited to have Jennifer Thornton on the show today. Jennifer, how are you doing?
0:00:43.6 S2: I’m doing great, how about you?
0:00:45.4 S1: Awesome. Yeah, I’m doing great too. Yeah, it’s really great to have you on the show today before we get into our questions or discussion, can you just give our audience a quick overview of who you are and what you’re all about?
0:00:58.6 S2: So yeah, so I am the founder and CEO of 304 Coaching, and I launched that business a few years ago after a long corporate career, and today we help organizations create talent strategies that match their business strategy, so that the people that are on the team to make all of your dreams come true, that all that stuff in that business strategy… That’s
0:01:21.5 S1: Awesome. Yeah, that’s so important to have a good team. And as a business, we’re all trying to leverage… You can only go so far by yourself, right, so at some point you have to leverage other people’s time and resource and their expertise in certain things, and it’s obviously very, very important to get the right people. Not just get anybody for any job, it just doesn’t work like that, especially for certain tasks, so… Yeah, I love that. So Jennifer, as you saw it, as You’re a sought after business strategist and co-304 coaching, can you take us back to when your entrepreneurial journey began, and what is it about entrepreneurship that excites you?
0:02:12.9 S2: So I think it began really early in my career, I grew up in the retail industry, and now I ran stores out of college, and when you’re running a store, you’re running a multi-million dollar business. And very young in my career, I made hiring decisions, I made decisions on where to deploy people and why I woke up to my KPIS every single morning, and I knew that I had to make really great decisions if I wanted my store… My unit to be successful. And it became a lot of fun to think about who to put on certain shifts or different things that were going on in the business and think about who to put there to get the most out of it, and reading those stores early on helped me kind of learn what it would be like to manage something without supervision is so entrepreneurial-ship is…
0:03:08.7 S1: Yeah.
0:03:09.1 S2: Exactly. Yeah, exactly. We have lots of bosses, I think people think they go into entrepreneurship to not have a boss, but all of our clients are bosses… Oh yeah, oh yeah, for sure. You have to keep all of our bosses happy, but I think what excites me about it is the creativity, I get to wake up every day and break what works, and no one can tell me no, and I love breaking what works and I love trying to figure it out and put it back together, and how could it be done? And how do you create a better will, and I think that’s one of the things that excited the most about it.
0:03:43.5 S1: That’s very cool. Yeah, and that’s a good outlook to have, is to break things, you take them to a certain point and then you break them and figure out how can I make this better? So it’s not just status quo, you’re not just like when you were waking up to your KPIS every morning, it would be very easy to say, Yeah, this is what it is, this is how… This is how the business operates, this is our data, but not doing anything with that data, just kinda keeps you stuck in the same place, and does it help you progress so I think that’s very important and pretty interesting to figure out who… You were talking about putting certain people on certain shifts and drug-laying them around, how did that work? What were you seeing in different people that allowed them to take on different responsibilities and move the business forward based on their expertise?
0:04:46.2 S2: Early on, early, early my car, I was in those stores, but I think what I learned over time and as my career progressed in my experience progressed, I did all kinds of different types of jobs inside of an organization, and my last job there or the last corporate job is there probably in five, six years, and I managed an international HR division, and so we had the challenges of language, culture, time zones, and just your regular old issues you have with the team plus everything else on top of it. So what do you think I found when I was leading an international team, is that you had to find some common ground with people, and you had to kind of find a language and a culture inside of your group, and so that was somewhat challenging because we actually spoke different languages, but we all shared Business English, I guess, that we looked at it, but everyone learns Business English different too, which is a whole another story and how to communicate in that arena, but I think what I’ve learned is you have to really get excited about what people do, right, naturally. And let them do that.
0:06:03.1 S2: And what they are not naturally graded out, even if it’s something they have to do, how do you get them to passing grade, and then everything else they’re incredible at get them even better at it. And I think those are some of the things I learned as I grew in my career and the things I teach today and how I help companies today look at talents.
0:06:22.7 S1: Okay, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. What if somebody has a… They’re interested in something, they’re very good naturally at one thing, but they really would like to branch out and able… Really like to be able to do something different than maybe they’re not quite as good at it yet, do you kind of keep doing what they’re doing really well, or do you encourage them to branch out and encourage them to learn more and do something out of their comfort zone that you might be taking a gamble on the fact that they’re ever gonna be that good at it, but it’s just what they wanna do, how would you… How you do with something like that?
0:07:06.5 S2: I think that if there’s someone on your team that’s a great a player and they’re doing a fantastic job and they wanna try some new things, there’s nothing to lose, let them try because you don’t know what you think they may be great at, they might actually not be great at… You just thought that, that they may be even better at something else, and when we allow our teams and team members to do new things, try new tools or tasks or jobs or experiences, what we’re doing is we’re expanding their mind at work, spending what they see as their truth and their reality, your mind only knows what it’s seen, and so as we give new experiences to our team or expanding their views, we’re expanding how they see things, so if they’re adding on maybe some experiences to see how they do, they now see their current job even different and more than likely, see it in a new way that will help your business. So any time you can provide experiences for your team that they are excited about, do it.
0:08:09.3 S1: Yeah, yeah, I love that. I think that’s important to encourage people to do what they really wanna do, and then they… Everybody might decide that that wasn’t a good direction or like you said, I think that’s great too, that you might have thought that they were… They might have been really good at something, but even better at something else, you just really have to let them explore it and find out what they’re really good at, and that ultimately leads to growth personally for that employee and then as a whole for the company.
0:08:44.4 S2: Yeah, it’s interesting when you allow people to grow and you provide them avenues to grow, they’ll naturally grow in other ways too, and you create this culture of trying new things and it’s okay, it’s okay to say, Hey, I don’t know how to do this, but I’ll try to figure it out, and you think about innovation that we need in today’s world, that’s how it’s created know People come to me all the time and they’re like, My team doesn’t innovate, my team doesn’t make their own decisions, my team doesn’t do this and do that, and I’m like, Well, let’s talk about… Yeah, let’s talk about your actions and how you’re actually holding your team back through how you lead, and you’re not getting what you want because you’re not leading a way that fosters and grows that, so yeah, providing experiences, allowing people to grow is just a fantastic way to structure business.
0:09:32.4 S1: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. So yeah, with three or four coaching, you focus on helping companies find that perfect fit for any position and fill out talent gaps, how does your team help identify talent to make sure that they’re the right hire, both in the short-term and the long-term, so not that it basically, in other words, that it doesn’t just look good on paper, but that person is gonna stick around for a while and help the company grow. Yeah.
0:10:02.0 S2: So one of the things that happens when we hire people, there’s a lot of things that go through our head, sometimes it’s just call recruiting and give me a body, and sometimes it is, I want a person to do job A, but we really haven’t done the work to decide, why is this job important, what are the impacts of this job, who will this job be working with? And so those are some of the skills that we teach people like how to really decide who to hire and why, then on top of that, we use OAD- organizational analyst and design, and it’s a pre-employment assessment that helps us recognize traits, and so we can interview people on skills and experience, but we can’t interview people on traits, an example of that would be their level of assertiveness, ’cause no one really can walk in and say, Well, I’m super assertive or I’m not sort of at all, and I know you want me to be in a position of high influence, and I’m not asserted, so I’m not gonna be able to do that, no one’s gonna tell you that, and those people don’t even know that about themselves, and so we have a tool that helps organizations not only get the right culture like we can interview our culture, we can interview to experience, we can interview to education, knowledge, but the trait to ad helps us get the right traits to the job, and we usually terminate people or people fail because of how the work gets done, not because they don’t know how to do the work, and that’s where Mahindra, it makes such a difference and get the right people in the right places, so then you can start to develop and train them.
0:11:33.0 S1: That’s interesting. Yeah, and people aren’t… We’re not necessarily gonna understand or how to communicate our traits as much as we’re able to fill out a survey, they saw with just the things that we know how to do, but our actual are traits and the way in which we do things is maybe not as obvious to us, unless it’s pulled out of us, I guess, so… Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And that can… I think that can lead to finding somebody who is a great candidate, you find somebody who’s really great, but maybe not great for a particular company, you might find somebody who’s awesome on paper to do the job that you need them to do, except that they might not jive with the company culture, and then that does everybody a disservice ’cause they’re gonna be resentful of that and you’re gonna be resentful, it’s not gonna be matched. They could be perfect somewhere else, and that helps, I guess, really close that gap and find a better candidate.
0:12:44.0 S2: Yeah, it does, and one of the things that measures is your level of adaptability and your level of creativity when you’re making decisions… Not like creativity, if I have my grid painter or something like that, it’s when I’m making decisions, Do I like to break what works or do I like to go with conventional thinking, and so you could hire three companies could be looking for the same marketing analyst, but if a company is very traditional and doesn’t necessarily want to change, they want someone to come in and just keep things going, if you hire someone highly adaptable and highly creative, they’re gonna fall boxed in, they’re gonna be frustrated because you don’t wanna hear their ideas or they can’t do things differently. And conversely, if you have a company and you want someone to come in and shake it up and break everything, but you hire someone who’s very conventional, then they’re not coming up with the ideas that you expect them to have, the both candidates may be fantastic, but their traits in the way they do their job has to match for them to be successful.
0:13:46.1 S1: Yeah, I agree, I’ve definitely seen that where… In neither way is right. You have companies or you have positions that really require… Not every position has to be this amazing out-of-the-box thinking type thing, businesses have… There are certain roles that need to be carried out that are just… It is what it is. It’s getting from point A to point B, and it’s a straight line. And that’s straight lines, the most efficient way, and it just needs to get done. And so, like you said, having somebody who’s more conventional, some people are just geared towards that kind of thing, they like to just… They don’t wanna be thinking outside the box, so they don’t wanna have too much responsibility or be thinking creatively, so that’s perfect for them, but somebody… Like you said, somebody who is more creative would feel trapped by that, and then that rattling a-B person would feel overwhelmed with being in a position where they… Oh man, I have to do what, I have to come up with my own ideas, and I have to think creatively. And I have to do all this stuff on my own. And as entrepreneurs, we’re more of the creative out of the-box thinking, How do we solve these problems? So yeah, that’s very interesting.
0:15:09.8 S1: And it’s important to get that right. And so as an entrepreneur, I wanted to ask you what… And this might be a little bit of a loaded question because especially as you just answer the last one, there’s definitely different characteristics that different positions, different companies are looking for, and there are so many factors that you’re taking into consideration with an entrepreneur has to be so careful about every hiring decision, because it really costs so much to have a full-time employee, you have to make the right call. Are there a few key things that you’re looking for in general, or is it not fair to generalize key characteristics of people for every physician?
0:15:59.4 S2: I think that you have to… When you think about who you’re hiring, you have to get really honest with what work do you want to get done, and what does this position realistically look like that… Is this a generalist position, you’re hiring someone that you need to be able to manage your social media account, book travel, and make sure that your QuickBooks are all done. Those are three very different tasks and very different minds, and so I find the entrepreneurs try to find that person that can do for completely different jobs in one person, and it doesn’t always happen in those… Unicorns are few and far between. I think for entrepreneurs, depending on where their cycle is in their business, I recommend hiring contractors that are experts in their role, and that way, if you can spend the money for one full-time employee, what if you hire and you need those three things done when… If you hire three experts at an hourly rate on a contract, then you give a lot more flexibility with your organization, then you also have people doing what they do best, and you’re not gonna have to work as much or not gonna have to follow up, you’re not gonna have to think about how to do it because you’ve hired an experts do it…
0:17:17.7 S1: Yeah, exactly, and you don’t have to worry about having three full-time employees necessarily who you’re concerned about them being overhead and concern maybe about them being busy full-time, and you can just hire people more on an hourly basis, and that actually kinda leads me into my next question, which was about, right now, especially it’s never been easier to work virtually and to hire somebody from around the world… You’ve done work globally. Do you… When you’re hiring, do you look for people all around the world for particular positions, or are you trying to place people… If you’re working with the US company, are you generally trying to find somebody in the US or are you just… So you’re really looking globally.
0:18:14.8 S2: So I am open globally, when I find the right talent that matches the needs of our customers, and we created a virtual business when I launched 304 because I had always been a remote worker, most of my career, I was managing teams remotely, so I didn’t really necessarily know how to… I don’t even know if I could manage a team that was all in front of my face every day, I mean, I just have never done it. I’ve always had teams all over the country in North America, times globally, and so we design the organization from day one to be a virtual organization, which obviously helped out a lot as we transitioned in 2020. Sure. And what that did for my organization now, not every organization works that way, but if you can have a virtual organization, what that allows you to do is again, get the right person, get that expert, you have to look at your business different, you have to look at how you evaluate results different if you’ve got a virtual organization, but I’ve worked with a lot of companies over the last couple of years who thought they needed people in the office and they struggled to find the right people, and maybe the market they were in, the cost of living was so high that they couldn’t afford to hire someone, but yet if they hired a remote person from somewhere else, they could afford to hire them.
0:19:35.4 S2: And so as you started to think about what do you need? What are your finances? All those types of things, going remote and asking people to work remotely if they can, there are… So there’s just so much benefit to it, it’s endless.
0:19:50.3 S1: Yeah, and it can be a little overwhelming to figure out where to find the right talent, there’s different platforms out there, like upwork and Fiverr, although that’s more for just little jobs you have to do, and it’s kind of hit or miss, but I think it would be better to have to work with somebody like you, I think, who can really dial it in and and find somebody… Use your method of finding not just somebody who can do a job because you can go into Upwork and find… You type in graphic design, you’re gonna get 100000 people who can do a job, but can you… Then they might be fine to just knock one project out, it takes a couple of weeks or whatever it is, but can you trust them and can they integrate with your team on an ongoing consistent basis? I think that’s where it gets much more into… You gotta get into the weeds of really vetting somebody out, and so I think working with somebody you would make a lot of sense to figure out who is the best person for my company now and a year from now, in several years from now, and can they grow too, and can you scale up with them…
0:21:17.7 S2: Yeah, and that’s part of the talent strategy process, I talk to, especially start-ups all the time, they have these sites, very elaborate business plans, and they’re going in and they’re pitching for funding, and they’re getting millions of dollars in funding, and then it’s… Then they struggle because running a business is about having a great team, and it amazes me that how many people will walk into a pitch to get funding and there’s no talent strategy of How are you actually gonna get this work done? You have a great idea. You may have a great product. It’s all mapped out. The processes are fantastic. Everything is Beautiful, you’ve got this great run rate, but then all of a sudden there’s no one to run the business, and then that’s where they start to kinda go off the cliff, and it just amazes me that people will fund an organization without a talent strategy and you have to have one. Yeah.
0:22:15.2 S1: Yeah, well, I think it’s interesting because as entrepreneurs were to feel like we can do everything ourselves sometimes, and We’re general contractors and we can just pretty much figure everything out, but at a certain point… And that works a little bit in the beginning, to a certain point, and you do have to wear a lot of hats, you do have to figure out… Work in every aspect. There is many aspects, many parts of your businesses you possibly can, and in order to understand and learn it and figure out how to teach other people how to do the things that you don’t eventually wanna have time for, but then that’s the thing eventually you just don’t have time to do all these different things. And it’s not all these different things, you might be amazing at developing a product and coming up with new ideas for products, but you might not really be all that great in marketing, or you might be good at business-to-business sales, but you’re not that great at digital marketing directly to consumers or whatever it is, so… Yeah, it’s so important as soon as you can… Of course, there’s this tipping point.
0:23:30.8 S1: Or there’s this point where you can’t afford to hire somebody. And you have to do things yourself. And then, but at some point, you really have to bite the bullet, invest in people to expand your business, whether that’s hiring somebody for a few hours a week or hiring a few people full-time, so… Do you work with smaller companies who are just at that sort of tipping point and trying to figure out how to transition and scale their business, or are you typically working with larger firms.
0:24:09.2 S2: You know, we work with a variety of firms, our organization… Some of our organizations that we help, especially in the start-up phase, are probably at 20 to 30 employees, and when I can get in at that level, oh my gosh, the difference we can make because that’s where you lay the foundation and you’re at a place where you don’t have to break it all to rebuild it, and then I have a large group of clients that are several thousand employees, and usually we have to go in and break a little bit and create new habits and create new ways of work, and it’s a different type of approach, but I love getting my hands on companies that are anywhere from 30 to a couple hundred people, because it’s when you can do some of your best work ’cause you can say This is what I want, and you really start to think about scalability of your team… So if you know based on your projections in five years from now, you’re gonna need a chief HR officer and you’re looking at a very young and hungry and super crazy smart, creative marketing person is already on your team.
0:25:19.6 S2: Well, don’t just think, well, in five years, a higher a chief marketing officer, what can you do in the next five years for this person that’s on your team to get them ready to be that person, and oftentimes, we just let it go and we hope that they’re ready and hope is never a strategy, or we don’t invest in them or we learn them out, but if you can get really focused at that smaller stage and then plan the projector of your key people, they’re gonna be with you long-term, they’re gonna help you get your company where you want it to be, and you’re gonna have a ton of fun doing it, ’cause people are gonna be growing under your leadership, and that is… It gives you purpose and excitement, it’s just a lot of fun.
0:26:01.5 S1: Yeah, exactly, yeah. And you can… You’re growing your business for the long term instead of just trying to keep people in and keep pulling people in and have more of that… I feel like that generates more of a revolving door type environment where you’re not focused on cultivating the talent that you already have…
0:26:28.0 S2: Yeah, yeah, and it’s fun, er and more affordable to build them from the inside and to go and buy them off of someone else, and sometimes we have to do that, sometimes we have to go outside our organization and find the right person, but so many times the right? Person has been sitting in front of us for years, we just didn’t do anything with them, and so now when we need them to go to a new level, they’re not ready, and we own that as leaders, we own… If our team is not growing, we own that…
0:26:55.9 S1: Yeah, so how do you do that? How do you… If you’re trying to do… You feel like you’ve got somebody who’s got this untapped talent, and then they have a lot of room for growth, how do you help them become a better leader or a better version of themselves within the company?
0:27:17.2 S2: Yeah, so when we work with organizations and we identify, say we’ve identified five people in the organization that we feel are our future talent and we need to invest in them, so the process we go through is we give them individual coaching, because leadership is a mental game as much as it’s a skill game, and so to keep them sharp and to keep them from burnout, they need an executive coach, then we put them through group experiences in education, so we have leadership academies that we custom design for. They’re like a plug-and-play type model, and we work with the organization to say, This group of people in five years, what skills, what competencies, what knowledge, what do they need to have? And then we put them through a peer learning experience and allow them to learn all those skills that they need, and then also look for additional opportunities that are very specific to that industry if they’re in taxes versus marketing versus sales. How do they get experiences and then we have a lot of good conversations and talk to them about their journey, one, make sure they wanna go on that journey, ’cause sometimes we assume they do and they don’t eat and then staying really close, the leaders or the owners of the organization, have to stay close to these people, and so we bring in different tools to wrap our arms around those key players and to ensure that they’re ready and that they stay within the organization, and that they’re ready to take on the responsibility as it’s coming in.
0:28:51.6 S1: Okay, sure, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And so you’re really… You’re spending a lot of time with them, you’re really trying to dig deep and figure out what motivates them and how they can become better as… I love that. So Jennifer, through your entrepreneurial journey from the highs, the lows, what has been the most difficult thing about being an entrepreneur? The
0:29:16.4 S2: Most difficult thing… I think the most difficult thing in the beginning for me was keeping everyone’s opinion out of my head, and so when I decided to leave a very nice corporate job, I mean, who doesn’t want to fly around the world in my corporate job looked fantastic, especially on Instagram, I traveled the world and all kinds of great places, and when I told people I was going to leave and start my own business, there was a lot of naysayers, so be careful who you share your dreams with, because sometimes they can get in your head, so I think that’s one of the most difficult things, is staying true to what you wanna do and what you believe in, because the world will try to influence you. Sure.
0:30:00.8 S1: Oh, absolutely, yeah. And you need some feedback and you need to talk to people at some point about what you’re doing, but it is interesting because you trust the people around you, right, but they don’t necessarily always understand the entrepreneurial journey and what is all involved with that, and maybe the potential involved with that, the thing that excites me the most thing the most about owning a business and being an entrepreneur is the potential… That’s what gets me excited every day. And if I was waking up every day knowing that, Okay, I can only make this much money and I can only sort of do this much every day, and I’m not necessarily gonna grow, I don’t have the opportunity to grow by leaps and bounds, but personally, in my business and financially, it just would not be as exciting, but it’s also not as safe, so there’s people who love you who want to keep you safe, and so sometimes that can be difficult to say, Hey, I hear what you’re saying, but I gotta do this, this is… You gotta trust yourself to… I think Sara Blakely created spans. She remember her saying something about…
0:31:33.8 S1: She didn’t… When he came up with the idea for spank, she didn’t tell anybody for a year, so she was just… She was missing all these events, family and friends, and just to work on… She would tell people she had an idea she was working on, that’s it, but didn’t tell anybody, and I took that year to get a little traction, so that after that year, it didn’t sound so crazy anymore, it was like, Hey, this is what I’ve been working on, and I’ve actually… It’s not a dumb idea. So I think that’s kind of an interesting approach sometimes, although you don’t wanna leave everybody completely in the dark… Yeah.
0:32:11.1 S2: It’s all a lie. Yeah, it’s all a balance. I was talking to a client just this last week, and she’s branching off and wants to do a new vertical within our business, and she was like, You know, I had this idea and she’s done a lot of work on it, and I had talked to… So and so… And they just kept telling me it was gonna be a lot of work, and I just don’t know. And I’m like, Is it a lot of work for you? Or a lot of work for them. And she was like, I don’t see it as work, and I’m like, That’s because you were meant to do it. They were not meant to do it, right. And that’s why it looks like work to them, and I think that’s why you… Especially as entrepreneurs. You have to have a coach. My first two years, I had an incredible coach I still talk to today, but I talk to him at least once a week, and it’s that safe space to talk to someone and to work through ideas and to think about what you wanna do. But yeah, it makes such a difference, but…
0:33:07.3 S2: Yeah, it was funny when she was like, everyone just keeps telling me, it’s work. And I’m like, What do you think? And she’s like, It sounds fun to me, like… Stop listening to everyone else.
0:33:16.8 S1: Yeah, exactly. As in… Yeah, yeah, you do it to get it done. Or find people who don’t feel like it’s… Who also don’t feel like it’s worse, who also view it is fun, and everybody’s having fun, so… Yeah, I love that. Well, Jennifer, it’s been great talking to you. I just have one more question as we wrap up the episode, is there one piece of advice that you could give to our audience that might help them on their entrepreneurial journey, either that might help them if they’re looking to hire somebody or just in general.
0:33:55.0 S2: I think in general, where I see entrepreneurial, I E… And it’s… One of the difference makers I see out there are people who make decisions. So many people will set around with ideas and Ida for days… Years, decades. And never pull the trigger. You’ve got to make decisions, you gotta get really comfortable and make decisions all day, every day, right or wrong, just be out there making decisions, ’cause when you set and just wallow and the choices… You’re making the decision to do nothing. And I think that’s one of the biggest things I see from failure to success as people who are just making decisions and getting out there and moving forward.
0:34:34.1 S1: Yeah, I definitely agree. And when you’re making decisions, you’re moving the needle in some way, and you hope it’s forward, sometimes it’s not within every decision doesn’t necessarily translate to a big increase in the bottom line, which is what we’re all kind of looking for, at least partially. But yeah, I totally agree, I… Whenever I feel like things are getting pushed off and decisions, I hate not checking things off my list. Right, so I wanna make a decision on something and move on. And you have to be as educated as you can and try and use experiences to guide those decisions, but I totally agree, just make decisions, move on, learn from them and then may continue to make new decisions, otherwise you’re just not really going anywhere.
0:35:29.8 S2: No, you’re just… You circle in the dry… You’re not making decisions.
0:35:33.5 S1: Yep, I love that. Well, guys, thank you so much for listening to That Entrepreneur Life. To learn more about what Jennifer is working on, check out 304 Coaching, if you like what you heard today. Make sure to subscribe to our podcasts and iTunes or any other major podcast directory. You can also find us on all the socials and on our website at That Entrepreneurial Life. Thanks for listening to that entrepreneur live podcast. Be sure to visit that entrepreneur life dot com to join the conversation, access our show notes and discover our fantastic bonus content. Don’t forget to join us next week for another episode as we continue to add value until next time.