Taking Human Resources to the Next Level

“I think disengagement comes because we’re just throwing work at people. We’re not really talking about why it’s important or even considering if it makes an impact”

0:00:04.1 S1: Hello and welcome to Minter Dialogue episode number 405. My name is Minter Dial and I’m your host for this podcast. This week’s interview is with Jen Thornton, Jen is founder and head of 304 Coaching helping companies to drive strategic talent development. Having worked as an HR professional with teams in China, Mexico and the UK, Jen brings a fresh and international perspective to HR Planning, Management and Leadership. In this conversation with Jen, we delve into the pain points of HR. What is holding back employee engagement? The challenges of building and leading remote teams and much more. You’ll find all the show notes on MinterDial.com, please do consider to drop in your rating and review, and don’t forget to subscribe to catch all the future episodes. Now for the show. Jen Thornton, lovely to have you on the show. I piped in during this odd time of life from Dallas, Texas. Jen, in your own words, how would you like to describe yourself…

0:01:09.5 S2: Oh gosh, in my own words, I would describe myself as an energetic kind of person who doesn’t believe in roadblocks. That anything is kind of possible, and I just think life is a ton of fun, and so I guess I would describe myself as someone who’s having a great time every day.

0:01:30.2 S1: So that’s wickedly wonderful Jen… I’m thinking about this energy story, we’re in a period where energy… Well, we can talk about global energy and all that kind of stuff, but just the energy story, and if you’re wired for energy as you seem to be, and I think that I generally am… How does one get someone who’s feeling down and miserable, how do we co… Not coerce, but get them jived up, bring back in, because if we’re just saying, Hey, everything’s great. How do you go about that, ’cause with your background in human resources, bringing that energy is fantastic, the thing is we need to have everybody also humming on in fourth gear as well.

0:02:17.9 S2: Yeah, so I think that when working with people that I’m coaching or people I’ve worked with or do consult with and their energy isn’t quite there, it’s about really being honest and having some really honest conversations, it’s not about saying, Oh well, your life is great, you should be in a good mood. That’s not gonna help anyone. But saying, Let’s get on, so tell me what’s with you right now, what is weighing with you right now and allowing people the space to put it on the table and to think about it, evaluate it, understand it, and then make some decisions on what they wanna do with it. And I think that so often people feel that they may be stuck or in a rut because they just don’t know what the next step is, and sometimes no one knows. It’s just putting one foot in front of the other. And I think that’s what’s so important is to provide people the space to do that, not to shame, not to build them, not to judge them, but to understand their current reality and then help and guide them to whatever that next step forward looks like, because when people start making a move forward then you typically start to feel a lot better.

0:03:29.7 S1: That’s fascinating because I’ve observed in my own experience and these pandemic-type times, my energy is sometimes Wayne, and rather than sort of just brush it off and go the bravado roots, which I’ve typically been able to do in the past… One of the things that I have found is that when I’m able to engage in a meaningful conversation with somebody, my energy inevitably comes back, even if it’s a tough conversation or maybe about something sad, there’s something that happens that re-energizes me, and it’s happened over and over again. Is that what this is about?

0:04:17.6 S2: You know, I think that is a piece of it, for sure. Any time that we feel heard, any time that we can share our burdens with someone who doesn’t necessarily understand… I don’t think we can… Anyone can understand what someone else is feeling like, but someone that’s willing to accept our and to share in that piece, I think that starts to make someone feel better again, it’s getting that out. And when we hold all that toxicity in our system and in our body and we don’t share it, it’s just investors in there and being someone who’s willing to talk to others about what’s on their mind, but being someone willing to hear and listen to someone, it’s a powerful gift. And I think that especially it’s been such a crazy year, and we are all learning how to listen to each other in a different way and how to accept someone’s reality in a new way, but I think if anyone has learned anything this year, what I hope is is acceptance to other people’s reality, so

0:05:25.5 S1: Here are some one who speaks, has got us to say, and so generally… And then yet, we are also to listen and in an environment where we’re talking about really what’s going on, that also means accepting, talking about the ship, the bad stuff, which quite possibly is happening at home. I’m sleeping badly, I’m having disputes with my spouse, one of my children might be having issues, and that’s affecting me, so you as HR, you might find the opportunity and the bandwidth to allow for that conversation, but oftentimes when it comes to speaking to… For example, my boss, who might be a little bit, let’s say, eager for performance, a rushed for time, and are you really prepared and able to share with that person, or is it something that only can happen with you and HR and it sort of stays closed off in that space.

0:06:39.3 S2: So I think it depends on your relationships and it depends on maybe the culture of your company, but when you think about if you are in a place and you need to have a conversation, you have some things going on at home and things are impacting your job, or impacting your mental health, go to your supervisor or that person… That makes sense, if that’s HR and approach it in the way that is kind of maybe a win for both, obviously, it’s not a win if you’re struggling, but what I mean by that is to say things like, at times… Work is a priority at times, my family’s a priority, and it goes between both of them, right now, I have a few things going on at home, and I still wanna be the top perform I’ve always been. So are you open to looking at a few adjustments and my schedule so that I can be the top performer I’ve always been, but also take care of a few things in my personal life, if we could negotiate through a few of those. I think that I can deliver to you. And I can also take care of some of the things I have going on at home.

0:07:48.8 S1: So express the… What’s for them kind of thing? The win-win kind of idea.

0:07:53.9 S2: Yeah, and the fact that… Because what often times we don’t have those conversations, and so we get to a place where maybe we are ducking out of work early and we don’t tell people and then people start to make up a story in their head, Well, they don’t care about their job anymore, they’re leaving early. And so if we don’t have those honest conversations with our supervisor, our behavior is changing, and you have a choice, you can allow your supervisor to create their own story in their head, right or wrong, or you can tell them the truth and give them the truth of the story, so that they can support you, but they’re also not making assumptions about you that are not true.

0:08:32.9 S1: So let’s say that’s from the perspective of the energy-deficient employee, but what about the boss, because the… Let’s say you… Presumably, I’m guessing Jen had aims ones where you got a boss who’s kind of a dicey… A little bit too much. I can do abbado thing, moving them into the… Well, you should listen to someone win down about their personal problems or curse used terms that they’re not gonna appreciate, but the issue somehow gets to converting other people to get that listening ear.

0:09:19.0 S2: Yeah, and sometimes it’s really hard for supervisors to hear about the whole person because they start to think about, Oh, well, maybe I won’t be tough enough if I hear about the whole person or on my… I don’t wanna be a soft. And when I work with leaders like that, and I’m coaching leaders who wanna be that tough person every single day, the funny thing is usually inside, they’re actually really soft and squishy, so it’s like this outside kind of shell… And it’s so funny, I work with this wonderland who I just think is brilliant, and he always comes at things really strong first and he backs back down, and I know that dance, and so I can work with him with that, but… I always talk about is what do we have to gain? What do you want out of this situation? This is a person that maybe has been fantastic and they need to take a leave of absence for whatever reason, are you willing to be open to alternatives so that you can keep their institutional knowledge? Are you willing to be a human and have some humanity for this individual? And one of the things I think that leaders forget is their leadership goes home with that person, and so I think if you think, Oh well, I was a jerk to my team today, they’ll go home, they’ll have a beer, they’ll be fine, no.

0:10:47.0 S2: They carry that home, and when they sat down to dinner with our family, that energy that you have left them with impacts their children impacts their spouses, and then impacts how those people enjoy their evening or don’t enjoy their evening, and so I think that it’s always reminding people that your influence and your impact on humans falls outside also of the actual doors or since we all work from home or office wherever we’re working from at that moment, but it sticks with someone 24 hours. It’s not an eight-hour work day. And then everything you said goes out the window.

0:11:24.1 S1: I am so liking this, Jen, and I’m gonna be a little success to this phone. Okay, I think women get that better than men, how is it that one can put on a tie and pretend that everything just is at work, and then you take off the tie and everything is different at home. And I wanna give you an example, and I like for you to enroll manner, respond. Okay, a man who describes that, we’re a family at work, it’s really important loyalty and hard work, and yeah, we have fights, but we get through it, we are our family, who also is married and is known to have one or two mistresses on the side. Tell me how that doesn’t impact the statement of We Are Family at work…

0:12:21.1 S2: Oh my gosh, it’s such a great… Yes, I love it. ’cause it’s reality, I’ve seen it more than once now, I think that it’s about understanding what the word family means, and if that person just looks at family as it’s okay to have secrets, it’s okay to go behind someone’s back, then guess what? Their team is going to think of the word family in that same definition, and when we use words, our actions are the definition of it, it’s not the Webster language that we put towards a word, and everyone thinks of words differently, and it’s really fun. When I coach people, they’ll say something… I’m like, Tell me what that word means to you. It is such a great question, and especially to asti executives that they’re like, I want this all to be a family… Well, fantastic. What does family mean to you? What does that word mean? Describe it and put it in some terms that we can put action to, and when you ask that question to that person… Yeah, they’re kind of like, Well…

0:13:34.6 S1: But yeah. It’s just a safe space. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Which then leads me to the… And this is not the topic of business, but how we tend to address or judge a politician by how they are at home, they have to have a spouse, to children, 22 children, two nice-looking dogs and go to church X number of times. So their personal lives absolutely, is taken to consideration in certain countries, in France, for example, they try to separate that out because it’s very well known, the French and joy a mistress or to post test that, I like to have that side. And you know, I just want policy, I just want their achievements, that’s what counts, and I resist that, and that’s really the big thesis for my new book, so it really… That’s what I think, but I haven’t made a judgement as to how it should be for politicians.

0:14:46.6 S2: Yeah, that’s a really good question. I don’t know either. I think that there are ethics that are important and politicians, I don’t want them know Rob in the bank when no one’s looking, I don’t want them to make policies that hurt the average person so that everyone around them and their buddies get richer, but if they’ve felt in a marriage, I’m like, who hasn’t… You know who hasn’t had a bad day in a marriage… I don’t know, I like dogs. I might judge you, you don’t have that, but I’d rather see a great dog than a spouse, but anyhow, but I think that, yeah, it’s more about ethics and how people have handled bad choices versus the fact that they’ve made it…

0:15:34.6 S1: Yeah, because at the end of the day, everyone, let’s say makes mistakes. No one is perfect. And that includes in the relationships that people you choose, I mean, nobody that says That’s a glass house to be throwing stones at, if that’s where we go, and I think that’s somewhat… The issue sometimes is that we hold these elected politicians officials to standards above the ones that we carry, and I think that’s highly hypocritical, so there’s in this onus of, let’s say, employee engagement. Is it always up to the bus to get the motivation to drive the excitement and the engagement, or it should also… Sometimes it’d be just, pull up your socks, dammit, get on with it. What is the Human Resources person say? All that.

0:16:27.6 S2: I think it’s a partnership, and I think that it is… It’s very multi-faceted. I think that the employees responsible for working in a job they truly love, and if you don’t like your job, then find a job you love, don’t be miserable. No, he should wake up every day and be miserable and go to work, and then you’re probably making it miserable for other people, which isn’t fun either, but leaders have the responsibility of creating environments where people can do their best work, and where people get to be honest and tell the truth and not be judged or shunned or in trouble for telling the truth, and it is definitely a partnership and creating engagement, and I think the employee who sets around and thinks, Well, I didn’t get cookies for Christmas. I hate this job, my boss is horrible ’cause I didn’t get cookies for Christmas, I’m like, Come on, you know What did you do now? But it is a partnership, and I think people forget that often.

0:17:30.4 S1: So the survey after survey talks about poor engagement in the workplace, the number that I pull is typically 70% say that they’re disengaged at work, I mean… Who’s to know? But that’s just a number. If that’s the case, and you’re coaching an executive to help them get from 70 to maybe 50, ’cause maybe it’s a realistic target, what are the methods that you go about, How do you architect more engagement?

0:18:05.2 S2: Oh gosh. A lot of it depends on where we’re at and what’s going on. But you think one of the first things we talk about is making sure that there is clarity around work, and I think that oftentimes we’re disengaged because we’re doing work that doesn’t matter, we’re doing work that is… I call it vanity work, it doesn’t make a difference, but some executive likes it that way and has liked it that way for 20 years, so by gosh, even though we’re running into a brick wall every day, we’re still gonna do it that way. And so we take out of the excitement and the purpose of the work, and that’s the biggest piece, is we have to start with making sure people have work that’s meaningful and purposeful and drives the business now, that could be as simple as payroll, we gotta do payroll may not sound exciting and glamorous, but there’s people who are really good at it and really enjoy it, but make sure they understand their purpose and that they’re able to contribute in a way that they get better and better at making payroll more functional. There’s people that have jobs that seem cool on paper and in lights, maybe they’re the head of innovation or something, but even those people have to be able to come to work and truth tell and engage and really take a hold of work that makes a difference to the business and then be respected and thankful for it, I think disengagement comes because we’re just throwing…

0:19:29.5 S2: Just throwing work at people, we’re not really talking about why it’s important or even… And considering, does it make an impact?

0:19:37.8 S1: Yeah, so I like this idea of vanity work, and the thing that I often look at is the clarity of why I’m doing what I’m doing, and why does it matter, and that oftentimes takes time to explain… So if I ask you to fetch a cup of coffee… Well, I’m asking you to fetch a cup of coffee because I’m about to have the CEO of Walmart come into my office. Oh, okay. If you just took a little bit of time, the patch, a cup of coffee, which I sound very derogatory or diminutive, all of a sudden becomes a bigger thing because you explain why why it matters, potentially one of the biggest customers is coming in the door… Oh, okay, I’m happy to get the coffee, but we forget to the time…

0:20:26.5 S2: Yeah, and you could say something as simply as, you know, this meeting is big, I need your help to make sure that we start off on the right foot, will you go get coffee, everyone’s comfortable in the beginning, ’cause I know that will start us off on the right, foot. Just as easy to say this, Hey lady, go get me some coffee too.

0:20:41.7 S1: And I didn’t mean to say lady, of course, ’cause I don’t wanna be in that kind of a sexist note, but this idea of even asking for help also.

0:20:53.1 S2: When we were talking before about having challenges, one of my feelings is that bosses need to stop looking perfect. And the issue at some level, especially in the pandemic is, well, the bus had to suffer through lockdown in his third country home where he has four dogs, a lake speed boat. Oh, I’m sure it was tough. And so when he comes to work and everything’s fine, he’s not labeling in, he doesn’t understand shit as to how it’s actually happening for other people, and so that empathy factor is missing, and yet it’s not because he has these six dogs, four country homes in the speed boat that actually everything’s perfect. And so this element of showing that I’m actually… I have bad days too. But you can’t just tell somebody to do that. In our positions where coaching, we’re advising or controlling, how do you get people to understand the power of accepting that some days I’m not feeling great. Oh, it’s such a good question. I think that we have to let people see the reality of the truth and really find that connection, and so when you’re working with an executive or they’re like, I have to be strong and I have to have all the answers so that people feel secure, really talking to them about the fact of what if…

0:22:25.1 S2: What if you told the truth that you don’t know how today is gonna go, you don’t know how tomorrow is gonna go, and even asking them questions back, would you rather someone lie to you or would you rather someone… Be honest and truthful. What if you are honest and truthful and someone in that room had the answer you were looking for, that really had an idea that could change the way you sell a product so that you get yourself through this difficult quarter, and again, you had mentioned it earlier, what’s in it for them, sometimes that’s a lot of it is understanding that when we are vulnerable and honest, then we actually create an environment of creativity and we can pull ourselves out of any trouble times a lot faster. Well.

0:23:10.1 S1: In those situations, it’s trying to get over the… Not Invented Here, Syndrome N. Oh, it’s not my idea. It came from him. Yeah, I that.

0:23:28.0 S2: I know, and it’s interesting, I always tell people when you’re working with your team and you hired an expert, let that expert go be the expert and be excited about their ideas. But so often we think we have to have all the ideas. We have to have all the answers. And I look at 21st century leadership and where are we going? Really, the number one skill you need is being able to assemble really smart people who can keep up and their expertise as fast as the world is moving, because as an executive, if you think you can know everything about everything as fast as the world is moving, good luck, that isn’t gonna happen. That’s

0:24:06.6 S1: Right. So there was a school of thought that talks about when you hire somebody… It’s about knowledge, skills and attitude. What’s your opinion about that? Little Chi.

0:24:22.3 S2: I think it’s knowledge skills, I don’t know about attitude, but I think what’s missing in that equation is the way we actually do the work, and so you can talk to four people who have basically the same skills, the same background on paper, they’re all for a match, but maybe you’re in a company that’s very traditional and you need someone to come in and manage how things have always been done, well then don’t hire one of those candidates who super creative higher, the one who likes tradition, and so I think what people don’t stop and think about is, how do we work? How do we make decisions and then put that piece into the equation, that’s the biggest thing missing ’cause you… Yeah, and everyone can have the same skill, but everyone’s gonna do the work in a little different way, and that’s the piece that’s missing.

0:25:12.4 S1: That sounds like the actions element you were talking about before, and maybe would that also be fitting with the culture, if that be an expression is… Yeah.

0:25:23.3 S2: I think there’s some of culture culture to me is more like, How may we treat… Treat people respect level. I think more of a way of work is decision style, do you make decisions in a way that’s emotionally driven or more fact-based driven. Do you like status quo and tradition, or do you like to break what works just to see if you can build a better will… I think it’s about adaptability, some companies are always realigning or restructuring or we’re doing it, we’re running left. Now we’re running right? Well, then you have to hire people who enjoy adaptability, and if you’re a company that’s really straightforward and very consistent, and you hire someone that likes adaptability, then they’re gonna give bored. And so it’s really about decision style and how people work and how that job needs to be deployed.

0:26:18.9 S1: So I wanted to shift into, let’s say the younger generations, and this… I’m talking about age, being… Graduating from university in the last 15 years kind of thing. For the next 15 years for that matter, I read somewhere that there are now more and more people who are leaving their jobs voluntarily, and it seems that there’s a challenge to keep talent… It used to always be a challenge to find the great talent when you are dealing with the younger generations, learn the seems, and I’d love to hear whether this is your experience, that they’re not really as willing to suck it up as we might have done in the old days, there’s a Modi Payton skit where the guy has a rather be marched in up and down the yard were just doing boring shit. Well, yes, of course, that was an acceptable kind of creed in the past, it’s less so today, how does one manage to retain talent? What are you missing in this retention story?

0:27:33.7 S2: So I just wanna shout out to those young people for making people stand up and be better leaders, ’cause you’re not gonna tolerate it, and I thank you for it because it’s changing the world, and so… People like complain. Oh, millennials, I’m like, damn, I wanna be one. They don’t put up with crap. They take their vacations like, Hey, yeah, they’re fantastic. So first, just to thank you second, I think is that, again, there are so many ways to provide yourself with a living in today’s world because of technology, and that wasn’t an option, and so when your mind only sees four options, it’s gonna show up and be okay with marching in place, whether they like it or not, because it’s the best of the four options, but then when you’re given a 1000 million options and endless options, you get to pick… So I think what’s missing is allowing the younger generation in all generations, ’cause all humans want it to be more of a contributor, to be able to use their brain at work to be able to say, Hey, I know how we could do this faster, hey, this work is like useless, I don’t know why we’re doing it, but just allowing people to come to the office and be truth tellers and to be aggressive at really making decisions and driving the company to a better place and not just being put in the corner and told to be quiet.

0:28:56.8 S2: I think that’s the biggest piece, is letting people actually come to work and work and do their job in a way that’s exciting.

0:29:04.1 S1: So beautiful segue into working, not at work, but remotely, so you said bring out and come to work and do their job well, now they’re sitting in their desk in the pajamas, in their boxes on the underneath and we can’t see them. They feel like out of sight, out of mind. And talk to me, so what kind of coaching are you providing for leaders who are now having to work from remote where before they could see you? Yeah.

0:29:42.6 S2: Well, here’s a little secret, I’ve actually never in my entire life managed a team in an office, I’ve actually never wore my lifetime, so I don’t know how else to lead other than remotely, and I led teams across the entire globe remotely. So it’s different. I think what we have to do as leaders, if you’re used to a traditional office space, we counted performance by hours in the state, not by actual production. And I think that’s the biggest thing as a leader is you have to now say, What do I actually pay someone for, so is paying for them to sit in the speed all day, or do I pay for results and get really clear on the results, and then again, it’s making leaders be more effective and better communicators because if I don’t have consistent touch bases or consistent times of checking in, then that person doesn’t know what they need to be doing, but it was really easy to be lazy in a office ’cause you could just walk by someone’s death and go, Okay, yeah, I want you to do this, or, Hey, did you do that? Or, Hey, come into my office.

0:30:44.0 S2: And so this was kind of just lazy, whatever my schedule matters more than your schedule, but when you start managing remote, you have to get really conscious about how you spend your time and how you evaluate results, and then tell people, These are the results, these are not the hours, I need you to sit in your kitchen chair in front of the desk, this is the work I need you to do, and then also come to terms with when that person is accessible, if they’re homeschooling their children, which is a big challenge, maybe it’s like Hey, I will be at my laptop from 60 am to 730, and then from three to seven, I’ll be checking in between them, but those are the hours I’ll be at my desk, and if that person’s getting their job done and they’re doing that, then that’s fantastic. That’s what you’re paying for, you’re not paying for hours in the set…

0:31:30.3 S1: Well, I love that, and I think this is kind of the gift of the pandemic that we’re Blige now to know about homeschooling because… Oh, oh, sorry, give one second, John, he’s about to walk in, or my cat jumps up on the desk, and that’s just the way it is, and that actually is the way it is. It is the way it was as well. But before we’re like, No, no, no, we can’t have that. And the second thing is, we’re on a zoom call, the boss just can’t roll in when they want 22 people looking at their screens waiting because the boss is later… That’s how it kind of was. Certainly at the company I worked where French, you know how we love to be late, the boss, it was a matter of pride of coming in, date, and so now will Zoom time? It’s on time. So I feel that those are two good gifts, what… Do you think anything else, any other gifts to the…

0:32:34.7 S2: I think those are great gifts, I think that… You talk a lot about empathy and be in a compassionate leader. I think that’s gonna be a gift from this because that executive who has never been home all day with their kids and understand what it’s like to balance it all, because maybe their entire staff of help can’t come into their house. And all of a sudden they’re doing it all… I probably am a little bit of humility of how hard work actually is, but I think he’s… In any really tragic situation, there will be some gifts out of it, and I think finding a little bit more balance and being more respectful to people as humans, I think it’ll definitely be one of them, especially in the workplace. Yeah.

0:33:19.2 S1: There is a new found appreciation of what a teacher is, a new found appreciation of what it is to do the hoe house wife or housework. How’s husband or housewife and… Oh my God, the vacuuming. It’s hard work, shitload to do it, Ohio feel that there are positives, and I think we need to bring that energy and light into it. Last things that I wanted to talk to you about was psychological safety, talking about this opportunity to speak, having safe spaces, how do you orchestrate that and just have far she’ll be be going in safe spaces, because let’s say for an example, if I’m a boss and I’m not, I don’t like what you’re doing. I still feel the need to be able to say, I don’t like what you’re doing. And if I am always putting myself up, not saying what I really think, because we have to couch this under political correctness, and anything I say could be held against me in a corded law kind of feeling, we end up not saying what we believe, we end up sure, recording stuff, we end up putting cotton wool into our mouth, and that doesn’t sound very authentic, so I’d love for you to talk me through that.

0:34:42.8 S2: So I think that psychological safety is actually telling the truth more often, and I think that what isn’t safe and doesn’t feel good in the workplace is when you can see your boss is frustrated with you, but you don’t know why that creates fear, and so psychological safety is actually about telling the truth faster and more honest, and when the moment happens, but doing it in a way that’s really respectful, and it can be as simple as maybe someone comes into your office and they have this idea and you’re like, That is a ridiculous idea, you can say that’s a ridiculous idea, or you could say, You know what, I don’t see it, but change my mind, and then that tells that person, Hey, it’s okay to come up with some big ideas to drive my business, and my boss may not get it, but hey, they’re open to listening. But when that person tries to change your mind, you may learn something, you may think you know what, it’s really kind of a crazy idea, but this one piece of it I could pull out and work, but it’s about telling the truth more often and quicker, but doing it in a way that promotes creativity and promotes innovation, not shutting it down.

0:35:50.2 S1: So I’ve really enjoyed this conversation. It’s been a lot of fun. I want to admit something, as we spoke before, we exchanged before about the name of your company, 300-F, and I wanted to know why it was… And I’ve heard it’s always also, I wasn’t gonna ask you again why your company is there for, but I did wanna tell you that it made me think because I wanted to craft a story around transparency, and there’s been a whole lot of talk about how transparency is important, and I kind of wanna resist… Not because I’m an old fart, ’cause I think it’s more practical. You can’t be 360%, 360 degree transparent. Full transparency. Well, first of all, we don’t even know each of ourselves, right, so I’m being transparent about as much as I think I know about who I am, much less sometimes intellectual property, confidential data. There’s stuff that has to be kept under wraps. So this idea of radical transparency is fine, but only applicable in certain contexts and concepts, so then when you use 304 for your company, I set myself a target to find a number that was over 300 and under 360, and so I wanna thank you for challenging me to come up with something, I ended up taking 39, 30, 19, and I wanted to find a story around that and the prince sang and anything, so anyway, congratulations to your work.

0:37:25.4 S1: Great energy Jen. How can someone get in touch with you, learn more about what you’re up to eventually engage you to bring more of that energy and that truth telling to their business.

0:37:39.5 S2: So you can find us at 304 Coaching, we have lots of resources there to help you create truth and create great conversations in the workplace, and then I love connecting with people on LinkedIn, and you can find me at LinkedIn at Jen Thornton ACC. Beautiful. Thank you, Jen. Thank you. Is such a good time.

0:37:59.0 S1: Thanks for having listened to this episode of The Minter Dialogue show, you’ll find all the show notes and other blog posts on Minardi dot com, and if you enjoyed the show, please have over Apple Podcast to give a reading in review and to finish. Here’s a song I wrote with Stephanie singer. A convinced mane. I like the feel of a stranger, Teradata, the danger to feel… Frame trust is pestile. I still say hi, Passiflora anticipating. Or one, maybe I tell myself this use and I’m building… I’m a live and Iceman in the arms of warmer. I’m a convened machine, my faith above the competitions in the coin, the anso, in the arms of a dispatch refines strode the father challenge so lives not to complete. What’s wrong with challenge? I assumed beyond. I like the feel of the stranger talked around the precipitating the danger to feel free, trusted. Marian, let me show what. I’m a compared practice line, companies go, Fiends in the arms of the war. I’m a convinced man, men to the 10, I’m a convert. In the arms of a WAM. So I comatos. I am in the Passover on manso.

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