Fear Is Just A Chemical Reaction With Jen Thornton

Learn how fear is just a chemical reaction with Jen Thornton


00:03 S1: Hello. Good morning, sir, how are you?

00:08 S2: I’m doing well, it’s time for another action-packed episode of the tripod podcast

00:13 S1: Who… I just need everybody to know I’m doing Springs right now, and you go… That’s very good. I can

00:24 S2: As I’m looking at the information we receive about our guest, and my first impression is she has an honest face… Oh my gosh, I hope she doesn’t try to sell me a car ’cause a total of… I went from her.

00:45 S1: Well, chances are, we have not booked somebody that sells cars in a Citi’s

00:52 S2: A good chance. It’s good to know, good to know. Jen Thornton is her name. Oh, Jin then, is your name? Well, maybe I should call her honest, Jen should be called on the podcast… Hello?

01:06 S1: Honest gentler office made, I don’t know, a case that is our own internal… That’s

01:14 S2: True, that’s true. Let me go ahead and see something at the better I gonna read her intro here, this is the intro of honest Jen. Jen Thorn. And here it begins. Jennifer has developed her expertise and talents, rate gy and leadership professional development over her exciting 20-plus year career as an HR professional, she sided international team to cross Greater China, Mexico, the UK and the US to expand into new markets, managing franchise retailers and developing key strategic relationships all while seeing business objectives and financial results, the rapid growth of our consulting firm, 304 coaching has been largely due to Jennifer’s unconventional approach to building innovative workforce development solutions for companies who are facing breakthrough growth and accelerated hiring patterns. She is a sought after business strategies, specializing in startups and large value-based organization, she assists her clients and building talent strategies that complement their business strategy to ensure X-Venetia crow. She lives in Texas, but for a family and rescues, in her free time, she enjoys reading Historic Preservation, remodeling her to Lake home and spending time with friends. And I’ll also add she has a very, very honest face, Langella introducing the stub presenting to others in order right after this point…

02:58 S2: You are listening to Tribe and pod, a podcast series of interviews of interest to the HR community. It is hosted by Corey Lane, produced by Jim Stroud, sponsored by proactive talent and enjoyed by you. Today’s episode begins right after this anti-in recruiting as an hourly service that we offer where our recruiters work as an extension of your business hoping to fill your positions by finding top talent. So on-demand recruiting is there to address issues and hiring, when a company is experiencing a lot of growth, when they’re having some seasonality changes where they may temporarily need to expand their recruiting team, you maybe have a new line of business or a space where you’re expanding your business that you need to bring in specialty expertise to help fill those niche rules that your internal team may not yet be ramped up on, proactive talents, on-demand recruits quite different from a lot of the other models that you’re gonna see in the workplace where as you’re gonna pay a contingency recruiting firm, typically on average, around 20%, sometimes up to 30% of the first year salary and the person may… And in that same period of time, you’ll spend less than a quarter of that with proactive town managed on to me for more information on proactive talent, visit online at proactive talent dot com or click the link in the podcast description.

04:30 S1: Well, hello everyone and welcome. Today, I’m joined by Jen for who is talent strategy and leadership development expert with over 20 years of global experience helping team scale with her innovative workforce development solutions. Welcome, Jen, we’re so excited to have you. Thank you for having me. Absolutely. So just to get things started, why don’t you share a little intro about yourself, how did you get into the field that you’re in, what is it that sort of makes you passionate about it? So my background is in HR, and the early part of my career, I was in the operations side of the business is actually on the retail industry, and so I did the operation for years and Rs, and what I discovered and others discovered about me was I was able to get my results because I was very passionate about the team, the team I assemble, the people I brought on and how they together, and over time, I became looked at as someone who was really focused on that, and so… I don’t know if you… About mine, 15 years ago maybe, I decided I wanted to transition into HR from operation. So I actually created a business case on why we needed to have recruiters in the field and presented it and got people to buy off on my crazy idea, and that’s how I became a recruiter, which was my first job in HR.

05:57 S1: And from there, I floated around to all different types of positions, and in the last several years in my corporate career, I was actually the head of International… Head of international HR for a big retailer, and got to live in Hong Kong and London in Mexico, which is fantastic. And I think that’s where I found my passion for talent strategies, I really saw how organizations or teams that were passionate about the talent strategy and thinking about how it connected to the business strategy, those organizations did better on those organizations or those groups were able to get their ideas off the ground faster, and I woke up one day and decided that I wanted to get off the airplanes and I just wanted to do that full-time, I didn’t wanna do anything else, and so I created my own business on 304 coaching, and that’s what we do today is we really help organizations think about their business and where it’s going, and what does that mean for the team, and how do we strategize and make sure that our team is ready for our future growth. That’s awesome, I love it. Well, first of all, I always love to hear the stories of how got into recruiting because nobody ever grew up wanting to be a recruiter, we all sort of wondered our way there, so I always love hearing that story and I love that.


07:13 S1: It starts in the retail space, because I worked in the restaurant hospitality space, and I think there’s a lot of… Those are kissing cousins when it comes to how organizations are structured and all of that, and I think that to the leadership development programs and talent approaches, filled recruiting and things like that, that I saw in a retail and restaurant space for oftentimes, actually better than what I would see in the traditional corporate setting, somehow in that space, they really grabbed onto it, and do you see that to you, did you see as you started to shift into more traditional corporate settings that there was maybe a little bit more buy-in that had to be done to get to those development mindsets in place. You’re absolutely right, and I did see that and I think… I love that question. I think back of why is that… I’m always curious, why is that? And I think that when you’re in hospitality or you’re in restaurant management, or you’re in retail management, all of those… We started a very young age. Leading people. And so that’s just what we do. I was making hiring decisions, and I still can’t believe this at 19 and 20 years old, his associate, and I think that if you grow up in a corporate environment and you’re an individual contributor, and then maybe you’re a manager, you don’t grow up leading people from kind of day one.

08:44 S1: And so I think it’s harder for them to see that value or maybe connect with it, where you and I grew up, where we were making decisions at a really early time in our career and we just can’t imagine doing anything else. Yeah, I don’t know that I ever… As you were talking, I was probably the first time I was really seeing the IATA minute. Why do I feel like I was better equipped coming out of that space to sort of lead or even be able to speak to others about leading than maybe my counterparts who are on the fast track of Leadership Development Programs and corporate… And I’m like, Maybe not the same speed there… Are there other things that you see when you are talking to leaders who are trying to develop their teams and they’re struggling, is it… It’s not simply that they didn’t get to sort of cut their teeth on it at a younger age, there have to be some other keystones, I would think that are like, this is typically where people are struggling, or This is typically why people are struggling. Do those trends exist? Are there sort of common reasons why people struggle to know how to build a team? There are, there’s a lot of different reasons that when I boil it down to one thing, most people don’t start a company because I wanna create an amazing group of people that are just gonna work awesome together, ’cause that’s not a business.

10:06 S1: A business is, I have this technology idea, I have this widget I wanna make, I have this service I wanna create, and you’re focused on that because that’s what your expertise is, and then all of a sudden you’re like, Oh, I have to build a team to make all of this come true, and so it’s not why people start a business, it isn’t because they wanna assemble an amazing team just to see what they might do as a group. They do it for different reasons. So talent strategies is just not their expertise. Yeah, do you find that people who… Our new leaders are easier to mold and help them pick up some of the skills that you coach on, I think of… Or to teach an old dog new tricks. And just because you’ve been a leader for 20 years doesn’t mean you’ve always been or even currently are a great leader, so I would think that’s hard, but to a certain extent, teaching somebody from scratch is a challenge as well, or is it sort of just like each person is different, and everybody has their own journey. Really, I think every person’s unique and different, but I do find that very experienced, new and very experienced leaders do connect with our training because we have such a different approach, and it’s not the same thing they’ve heard over and over again, it’s not about…

11:31 S1: Well, I’ll just be nice to people and they’ll do a good job, and so because I’m very much focused on the neuroscience of the mind, and how does the mind take in to take in language and what are those chemical reactions as a leader you create in someone’s mind, so are you pushing someone to the primate brain, which physically shuts down their prefrontal cortex, which is where all the stuff you need to happen happens. And so because our approach is so different, I think very experienced leaders in set up in their chair because they’re like, Oh, this is maybe something different, this may be very factual and not just anecdotal, feel-good exercises, there is science behind our language and what that means for our teams, and then how our teams go about our business, and how does that impact our business… So is it the CEO that’s bringing you in, is it HR that’s bringing you in, who’s the one that’s raising the flag and calling for help when you’re coming in and working with team… It’s one or the other, and sometimes they’re both together, and I think that oftentimes, I always say, Don’t call me when you need me, call me right before that is a lot harder to unwind things than it is to build from scratch, but oftentimes…

12:46 S1: I get phone calls when people are earlier and their empathy as an organization, and because they wanna create an amazing culture and they are already starting to see the need for talent strategies and development, and then I work with a lot of very traditional large-scale organizations and with those organizations, often times that may be HR or a sales executive, I get a lot of calls from sales leaders that are like, Hey, we need to make sure our sales team is as healthy as they can be and… Let’s talk about that again, especially because it’s a different approach, and so when you start to learn about how to change your language to change the chemicals and how people are using their mind, those are great sales techniques in there too. And so sometimes I get calls for them, but it just really depends, I always love it when I get the call from the leaders themselves, because it means they’re completely invested in it and they see the opportunity for change and they’re ready for it. So you talk about the neuroscience and the way that our language sort of creates chemical reactions and changes things, that’s a little bit different than the traditional sort of talent management approach for a lot of organizations.

14:05 S1: How did you find yourself going down that path and really looking at it from much more of a biological perspective, it was by accident actually, which is always sometimes the best thing I was… I’m a lifetime learner, I’m a junky for any kind of education type courses, I’m all Wait, I have a commitment to myself that I do some type of course every single year of my life, and several years ago, I found a course called conversation, led by an amazing woman at judicature, and she had spent 40 years studying the neuroscience of the brain, how it responded to conversations and what was the impact on business results, and she was certifying Practitioners in her program, and I was like, That sounds cool and interesting and different on the jump on that, and I always hooked from day one, and Judah was an amazing woman. Unfortunately, we lost her about a year and a half ago, but she changed my life, she taught me so much and I get to carry on her legacy, and all those years of work that she did still lives on today. Through all of us who have gone through her program and understand her program, and then from there, it just opened up this whole new world for me and I’ve gotten really nerdy about it and to the read stuff about the brain.

15:31 S1: But man, when you understand that your frustration is really things that are just chemical reactions and you can actually change your relationships by just changing your language, you can still tell the truth, actually, you can get even more honest, you can still tell the truth, you can still demand excellence, you can do everything you wanna do, but you can just change your language and in a way in which it helps people open up the right parts of their mind. And I feel like for a lot of folks, when you’ve got sort of that scientific aspect to it, it makes it easier to grab on to or trust the process, maybe, is the better way to put it, because oftentimes, we can go through programs and it does feel a little too anecdotal or it does feel a little too fluffy or soft around the edges, and you’re like, This sounds great theory, but I really… And so I would have to imagine that when you’ve got that really scientific lens on it, it helps people to say, Okay, well, there’s data to support that this actually makes a difference, I have something to lean back on to trust, that if I commit to doing these activities and making these changes, I’m gonna start to see results.

16:48 S1: You’re absolutely right, it does do that, and it not only helps them at work, but it starts to help them in all kinds of relationships, and I think that’s also a big piece of it, they start to understand why certain people push their buttons… You know what’s interesting is our brain… Our brain has one job and that’s to keep us alive, and it does that through fear, and it does that by alerting us about trouble, but your brain doesn’t really understand trouble between, Oh, oh, there’s a snake around my leg, or… Oh, that’s scary. Executives walking down the hall, what is he or she gonna say to me, Your bad… Doesn’t really know the difference between those two. And so when we get within 10 feet of someone or chemical, our brains and our chemical start responding based on our history with that person, if we’ve always had a really good relationship with them, all these Feel Good stuffed up a Mears going off and everything’s good. If the last couple of conversations have been tough or scared that they’re gonna judge us or scared that they’re gonna think that we’re not good, then your brain kicks off fear and cortisol, and so before that person even has a chance to say hello as you pass them in the hall, your body is responding and telling you something unconsciously, which then of course influences how we feel about that person.

18:05 S1: I had never really thought about it, and so I have to ask, so is 10 feet… Is that an actual sort of, there’s evidence to show that a 10 is the moment where your body is like team… There’s the person or… Yeah, there’s actual research that shows like how fast do you start to respond, but then you have to think about, well, in our virtual world, what does that mean? And I haven’t seen any studies on that yet, but I’m sure they’ll be coming out because why would we not be studying all this virtual stuff that we’re all learning, but I think… I can think of my own and my own self, if I look at my calendar that day and I look at everyone I’m gonna talk to, I can say, Okay, at 90 o’clock, I’m gonna do this. Oh, I’m really excited. It’s my favorite client. Oh my gosh, I wanna clock. I have a podcast, I hope it goes well. I feel like you just… You start to kind of fill… And if you look at your calendar and it’s full of meetings, you’re excited about… You’re a good move. If it’s meetings that you’re like, Oh gosh, did I get that prepared? I have to present as I can like me.

19:03 S1: Then you have stress chemicals going off, and so it would be interesting to see about how that research will play out over time. Yeah, I think that will be very interesting ’cause I know everybody is trying to figure out now in this new space, it has put everything really on its head, even for those of us who have been remote for a long time, it still just change things like somehow not having the option to go and be somewhere has made being remote feel differently, even though I’ve been doing it for a few years now. So on that, I’m wondering, are you… The pandemic had a huge impact on the workforce, and a lot of companies had to make some really difficult decisions and cut back their teams and ask their teams to do more than they’ve ever asked them to do before, and I’m wondering… Have you seen, based on the conversations you’re hearing and things like that, or maybe who’s reaching out to you at the same time, or company leaders having to sort of reconcile with the fact that they maybe haven’t been doing the work to prepare their teams to be ready to sort of step up and perform at a higher level than they’ve probably had to before this year, I’m seeing a lot of trends that relate to that, one of the trends I’m seeing is that when we had a crisis manage…

20:32 S1: At the early 2020, crisis management has its place. Building is on fire. Get out, there’s no discussion, there’s no ifs, ands, buts what I say, Get out of the buildings on fire and that’s crisis management. Well, crisis management only works in a crisis, but what I’m seeing is because we were having to do so much of that constant like, No, do this, now do that, now do this, and I do that, and we were moving so quickly to respond that we’ve gotten into some bad habits or crisis managing when things are not a crisis, and that it can feel very… It’s very stern, it’s very direct, there’s no discussion, it brings a ton of fear into the mind, which obviously an issue. And the other thing that I’m seeing, which I find really interesting for leaders is they have to… They’re struggling with how to attach results to perform and performance, and so we used to say, Well, you set in your chair for 40 hours and I see you in your chair for 40 hours. So you’re a good performer. Well, now what if I can’t see you in that chair, and what if you’re still doing the exact same new thing you’re doing, but maybe you’re doing it in a flex schedule and you work from 5 to 80 Am and then 70 to 10 PM, but you’re actually maybe even getting more done, so I’m seeing leaders really struggle with how to say, Yes, you did your job, because they can’t count hours in the seat anymore, and I think that’s gonna be a trend is how do we evaluate performance, Do we do it by the hours worked or do we do it by, here are your objectives as a full-time employee, and I expect them done.

22:22 S1: So I think it’ll be interesting to see how that plays out. Well, and I think for a long time, there are folks I know certainly for me, before I moved into the remote space, and I was in a more traditional corporate settings, that was kind of this push and pull between employees and leaders of… You shouldn’t have to see me. To know that my work is getting done, there’s this loss of trust, there’s a sense that somehow if I am really effective at my job and I do a good job of getting it done in seven hours that day instead of eight hours, it’s still less valuable than if I sat there for eight hours. And so I think it is forced those conversations to sort of bubble up to the top and people be willing to talk about it because you’re right, I’m not gonna sit on Zoom all day and let you watch new work that’s not efficient or effective for anyone, but yeah, it’s incredibly creepy. But at the same time, people have to sort of buy into that level of trust with each other that you’re gonna trust me to get my work done, and you can trust me to get my work done, I’m going to meet that expectation, but I know there are leaders that I’ve worked with in the past, not directly over me necessarily, but just in general, that they have to be struggling right now because they relied so heavily on seeing people in their seats to decide who the high performer was or who…

23:55 S1: The most valuable player was on their team. Yeah, and I know people… Someone will be like, Oh, that person. They’re always working. They’re always working late. They’re so committed. And I’m like, and the person who left an hour early isn’t committed, I’m like, Well, that person who left an hour early, I actually got more done today to that person who’s still sitting there, but again, our traditional way of looking at work is by the hour and not buy the output. And when you start to be credit by output and paying by output, that really changes how you look at performance and may even change who you feel like is a top performer on your team. Do you think we’re gonna see a big shift in how… As this starts to play out, are the traditional sort of performance management performance review is gonna finally, and I say finally on purpose, finally get tossed out the window and we’re gonna be willing to… More people adopt or that continuous conversation around development and performance is just gonna push us in the right trajectory. I hope so, I really hope so. But I think it will take a while because I think that traditional performance reviews are put in place because it allows people to be quite frankly, a little lazy throughout the year, and so those are…

25:17 S1: Like those check-ins, it says, no matter what, the whole entire company has to do this by this date, and I know when I was in HR, I still had chase every one to make sure they did it by that date, and when you take away your… I guess your safety net and people are expected to be great leaders and perform without a due date, it’s scary, but then you also have to say, Well, if I take away your due date and I take away this management, then maybe you’ll see who your top performers are… And maybe you’ll look at them completely different, and so I think organizations, it can… It’s about What does performance look like, and what do you want it to be, get really crystal clear on the work and what good looks like, and then figure out how will that get done, I guess, in the future, but I think there’s a lot changing and 2020 will change a lot in everyone’s lives, and I think the way of work is on that list, there’s nothing that’s not on that list, but I think we look back five and 10 years from now and we dissect the long-term effect and everything…

26:25 S1: It’ll be very interesting. Yeah, so I know from your expertise in your background, while you were heavily in the leadership development side, you also help teams on the front end side of it, the hiring side, as they’re trying to prepare to bring people into their teams, so would love to chat and pick your brain around that a little bit because I’m wondering, as you’re talking about the signs of things, how does that get applied on the hiring piece, are we… How are we talking about it on the front end of the funnel before the person even becomes an employee… I’m so glad you asked that question because that is like I just… If someone will give me a soapbox, I’m gonna get that I’m gonna talk about before you make a hiring decision, get clear on the work, and when I mean get clear on the work, I always say people throw payroll at problems, they’ll see two people just overwhelmed and so they’re like, Oh, we’ll just hire someone over there, but they don’t stop and say, Well, are they overwhelmed because our workflow is wrong, Are they overwhelmed because we haven’t trained them well, Are they overwhelmed because they work for a disorganized supervisor and they’d be just fine if that supervisor was organized.

27:36 S1: And so you first have to get really clear on why, and then if it is actual physical work, then decide, well, is this work require… Always when I look and help people think about work, I always say, What’s mission critical, which impacts the bottom line, what’s a nice to do… What’s the right thing to do? And then what’s vanity work? And we do a ton of vanity work. It makes you crazy. And vanity work is something about… Gosh, I remember one company I worked with, they had this new system that produced all their reports and they had automated a ton of stuff and it was saving a ton of time, but the CEO didn’t like those reports in like the way they looked. And so after they ran the report, which they could physically just lay on the CEO’S task, they spent hours, multiple people, hours printing information that he needed, re-organizing it in a way he liked, and then him to him… Well, that’s the kind of vanity work that happens all of the time because someone likes it or someone who doesn’t like it, and that’s the stuff you have to get honest with, and so then once you get honest with the work and then really decide, Is this full time part-time, a contractor, and then start to work on the job description, work on the specs, I do all the stuff you’re supposed to do, but don’t start it until you’ve gotten clear on the work, because when you bring people in…

29:05 S1: They need to be clear on the job you want them to do, and then again, be clear on what performance looks like… Yeah, well, I’m curious around that piece because… So the HR Technology Conference is going on this week, and it’s virtual, of course, and Josh person opened up with the keynote and he was talking about how they’re starting to see more and more behind this trend of organizations moving away from the traditional hierarchy approach. A matrix of jobs and layers and all of that, and really because of the pandemic being forced into this much more agile fluid space. So as you’re talking about being really clear on the work, I would have to imagine there still has to be that percentage of flexibility in it too, and understanding that if anything this year we’ve learned that we all have to be willing to wear different hats every once in a while, it’s sort of pitch in, do you see a space for that too in this approach… Absolutely, absolutely. And even getting clear on the work, it was about being flexible because when times are good, then you may be doing these 15 things, if you have to strap back, then it comes down to these 10 things, if it’s really togethers eight things, but then you can flex back up to maybe 20 days.

30:26 S1: But you know, you have to think about that Flex. The other trend that I think is really important to notice, and some leaders do a better job at as others is bringing experts and from four projects. And so if you have a really good team and they’re doing really good things and you want to do a special project instead of hiring more people or stressing your team out that because they’re not really actually that good at it, bring an expert in for a short period of time to partner with your teams, they can transfer knowledge, they can help you get maybe some processes whenever you need them for, and then you know, it’s a short-term project, and I think we’re gonna see a lot more people bringing people in for short-term projects versus these hiring a million people to kind of just hope all the work it’s done. Yeah, no, I think you’re right, I think that sort of market place of talent and the gig economy is gonna start showing up more and more in the corporate space where people are taking advantage of the expert when they need the expert. For the amount of time that they need that expertise there, and then being okay with letting the person go back off into the next thing that they’re doing, I think traditionally, they’re sort of this sort of territorial thing where if we didn’t create it in-house, if we didn’t build it in-house and have only our fingerprints on it, somehow it wasn’t authentic to us or somehow it wasn’t actually our work, so I think…

31:54 S1: I hope, and I think we are gonna start to see more trends around that… Yeah, and I’m getting a lot of calls this year, in particular from very large companies who have good size HR departments and huge learning and development departments, but they were so focused on the core of the business that they just didn’t have the space to do some of this other work and brought me in to do some projects and I… And I came in for four months and then I kind of bolted on to the team and executed… Took a lead on a specific project. Got it done. Got it, rolled out Lompoc. In fact, I did 16 webinars around the world for a company, I know, but it was so much fun and… Because they just didn’t have the capabilities. So they could have either said, Oh, we’re not gonna do this very much needed training, or we have to hire some… It was just… And it’s just a different way of looking at is bring an expert in, let them do their expertise, and then… We move on. Yeah, well, I think it’s a great rate, and I think also there’s this added value of that…

33:03 S1: The outsider’s perspective, and again, I think that’s some of the hesitancy is you don’t wanna open up the closet and let somebody who’s not a part of the team see tasteless or see how messy things may be, but oftentimes, when you have somebody coming from the outside looking in, they’re able to provide a different perspective that no matter how much you may want to, you would never have quite gotten there on your own because you just… It’s kind of like I said this one in a conversation, I was just gonna stick with it forever. What… It’s kind of like if you’ve got an ugly baby, you’re never gonna think your baby’s ugly, but your baby may be ugly and somebody else may be able to look at your baby and go… Yeah, I mean, it’s not the most beautiful baby, there are some things we can do it better in this outfit… Yeah, maybe not that color, let’s just… But I do think that’s true. I think we get very passionate and put a lot of ourselves in our work, and it’s really hard to really step back and take an objective view of what we’re doing and really understand how to even navigate forward no matter how stuck we may feel like we are, yeah, and in the traditional corporate environment, a lot of the jobs people are expected to be really heavily a generalist and there’s a lot of value, ’cause again, that speaks back to flexibility, but then there are times where you need to bring an expert in for a short period of time and not expect your generalists to be experts in so much, ’cause I think sometimes we set people up for failure because we want them…

34:40 S1: We do a job description, which is Polar office, and it’s basically two jobs merged as one and they’re completely different, and those unicorns, I used to always say when I was a recruiter, if only I had an easy bake of it and I could just put the job description in and the right to come out, but it didn’t work. It with the concept of being okay with experts, you’re allowing people to be in general, is you’re setting them up for success and then you’re giving them the support where the organization needs it… Yeah, and you’re helping them actually learn and develop themselves because they have a chance to sit down with somebody who has a deeper knowledge than they do because they’re specialized in in the area, and they’re able to grow from that and network and become connected with that person. And it just, I think it has a longer tale positive impact going that route, then I think a lot of times is just directly visible to people… Yeah, you’re absolutely right it. As I’ve loved this conversation, but before we go, are there any last thoughts or things that take aways that you would wanna make sure that you share with our audience before start to wrap up? Oh gosh, it’s always…

35:53 S1: I love those questions. I think, especially right now in the world we live in today, where everything we know is kind of not there anymore, I think it’s a great time to get in the habit of learning every day, and one of the things I’ve practiced this year, and those who I see, practice really have had some good insight you at the end of the day, make sure you ask your team, what should I have learned today that maybe I didn’t… What do you wish I would have said today that maybe I didn’t, when you wish I hadn’t said, but just at the end of your day or throughout the day, just at some point ask someone, What should I know that I don’t know? What should I hear that I didn’t hear? What should I learn that I don’t know? And if you can do that once a day, just imagine in another year how much information you’ll have and how different you may see the world. I love that advice. That’s awesome, thank you. So if folks want to get in touch with you in and find out more about your consulting and coaching services and all of that that you offer, or just to or connect with you in general, what’s the best way for them to do that? So you can go to 304 coaching dot com and you can reach me through our website, or you can connect with me on LinkedIn at Jen Thornton ACC.

37:13 S1: Wonderful, thank you so much for joining us today. This has been such a fun conversation, I’ve really enjoyed it, I have taken notes, I’m going to go and look some things up myself and continue my own learning, so very excited about that. But thank you and I hope you have a wonderful rest of your day. And they solve our listeners for being here with us today.

37:33 S2: Yeah, thank you, it was a lot of fun. Wow, that was a nice podcast, you guys could have gone on for a words that fake. I think we really could have… I think we had that. It was a great conversation. I enjoyed that a lot. Was that I… Like in the beginning when she said how people stumble into recruiting and I was thinking, Oh, that’s so true on… No one has a career fair and says, when I grew up, I wanna be a recruiter, not a one… I’ve yet to me to one I asked every person I know that is in recruiting, and I’ve yet to me to one that said that on career day when they were in sixth grade, they went in a recruiter classroom, which wasn’t that even look like a Franz look on her face, I prioritize and I like what he said, I’m using language to control the conversation, and I was like, Man, I could have used that when I was dating in college, and you really want to go out for it. I don’t think she was talking about my control… I think he has to go back and re-listen.

38:51 S2: I’m gonna use that. I think he was talking about my control, but I did… I did love that she was talking about the science of conversation and how the words we use actually create a biological response, so maybe you could have used that. Yes, I think we could have used that tease of the media stories are… That were something year highlights, I put it as When you… Big take away.

39:21 S1: It was a really great conversation, but I loved at the very end of her final parting thoughts, you’ve talked about the daily check-ins, just committing a very easy and small habit, it’s not like a heavy lift, it’s just once a day, commit to checking in with someone, about what you could be learning from them, what they’re seeing or hearing, or what they know that maybe you don’t know, and the idea… I think we… A lot of times to give out sort of continuous learning being a bit more of an undertaking to that, I think that advice shares how you can just in very small, in criminal ways start to bore information. ’cause I loved how she said, Just think if you started that today a year from now, how much you would have gained and learned… And she’s absolutely right. So I loved that, the nerd and me really loved that.

40:16 S2: That is a good suggestion, and I think I’ll check in with online listeners, if you have any questions or comments about this episode of tripod by all means, send us an email, our email addresses tripod tribe, P-O-D, just like it spelled in the title of the podcast tripod at proactive talent dot com. We would so like to hear from you. So that being said, I think we’ll wrap it up. Right in your corner.

40:43 S1: Sounds great. You have a good rest of your afternoon jam, and

40:47 S2: You as well. I’m gonna go check in on some food right now.

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