Telltale signs you can use to IDENTIFY any of the 7 Deadly Sins you may be committing Why the original 7 Deadly Sins perfectly correlate to MISTAKES leaders make The WARNING SIGNALS of “lower functions” – The keys to avoiding lesser habits How RECOGNITION, SELF-CONTROL, and the right COACHING have saved other leaders
00:04 S1: Welcome to the Influencer Networking Secrets Podcast. This is the stores for you to hear powerful stories, learning timeless principles, and take an actionable steps to build magnetic influence, meaningful connection and profitable publicity, by listening to our interviews with the world’s most successful executives, thought leaders and influencers, you’ll learn how to be a magnet instead of a pusher, how to market yourself through pro bono publicity, why not-for-profit is for-profit, how you can network with Dream connections, why you should learn to be persuasive and print, and how to be a curator of yourself, your network and your outcomes, sign up at our mailing list to get your free advance copy of the book, influencer networking Secrets, by going to the polls edwards dot com, influencer networking secrets today. Now, please welcome your host, international best selling author and executive ghost writer, Paul Edwards. Welcome to influence or networking secrets. Great to have you aboard for this new episode on The Seven Deadly Sins of leadership. No one talks about with Jennifer Thornton. Jennifer is the principle of 304 coaching, and she specializes in talent strategy and leadership professional development, stemming from over 20 years as a human resources professional, she’s led teams all over the world for companies large and small, but what spurred this interview was one of her bulletin topics and it’s called addicted to being right.
01:36 S1: We’re gonna talk about this under the rib of Chapter Seven, influencer, never Consecrate to the book, which is called the curator, ’cause I believe a big part of choosing your network clients, outcomes and habits comes down to a central issue of pride, or… I’ve networked as a proud man among other proud man, and I’ve also networked as a humbled man among other humble… When you’re about to hear is an incredible play on The Original Seven Deadly Sins, because Jennifer actually uses the all pride and be glutinous Rath less and greed, they just manifest slightly different in business than they do at home, but they are equally lethal. Don’t forget to check the show notes for links to Jennifer’s website, some of the assessments and tool she offers and case studies you can review. I think you’re gonna find this helpful whether you’re a colophon or leading a massive organization, but let’s not sugar-coat any further, let’s find out what we need to know about the seven deadly sins of leadership no one talks about. With Jennifer Anton. Welcome to influence our networking secrets. Paul Edwards with you. I’m very excited. We’ve got a terrific guest and a great topic to discuss today, so Jennifer Thornton, the founder and principal of 304 coaching is with us today, joining us from The Mighty, Dallas, Texas.
02:49 S1: And Jennifer is so great to have you. Welcome to influencer networking secrets.
02:54 S2: Thanks for having… To look forward to it.
02:57 S1: It’s gonna be good. It’s great to have you here, and I always start out a little just… We’ve done a little intro upfront, but I prefer to hear the guests tell a little bit of their story in their own words, so if you would please just take us through a little bit of the background, how you got to where you are, and what’s some of the latest stuff you’re working on over there at 3-04 coaching.
03:21 S2: So my background is actually in retail, I grew up in retail, I love the fashion industry, and I spent half of my career in retail on the operation side, so working front line with the customers and making sure that the customer experience is meeting all of our brand standards, then the second half of my career was in HR. And I think I probably bounced from every single department and HR, which was really great, I was able to go from recruiting to learning and development and all different types of things, and the last piece of my corporate career before I decided to create my own organization was an international HR where I handled all functions of HR and I got to live in amazing places like Hong Kong and London, Mexico City, and really… I spent that time and really realized that leadership was… It was difficult for all the obvious reasons, but when you take a group of executives and you add cultural differences, language differences, time zone differences, there’s a lot of work to figure out how to effectively run teams, and that really inspired me to start to dive into how the mind works and how does the mind work in leadership, which led me on a path of discovery and education, and then ultimately the decision to go out on my own to start my own business to help leaders all understand their mindset and how their tunics and their mind are working, and how do we create incredible organization where people are in a set up so that they are able to work in a collaborative mindset and work away from fear and those types of things.
04:54 S2: So it was a journey all around the world to get to where I am today. No, yeah.
05:02 S1: That’s… I guess it’s the longer I do this, what I’m doing, the more I need to pay attention to this because I didn’t stop to think about it until I heard you talking about it, but I now realize I’m already leading a team. Most of my people are in the United States, but I’ve got a virtual assistant in the Philippines, I’ve got a graphic designer in Germany, and is it the same as running a global Fortune 100 company? Not quite obviously, but it is… There are the subtle cultural differences, the approach or attitude to life, the perspective, and I’ve got to be very careful as a driven type A personality by nature, in how I handle those things.
05:54 S2: Yeah, absolutely, and it’s very small stuffing of some cultures, if you call and just say, Hey, I need you to get this done, and you get it done in the next 10 minutes without daring. Hello, how are you… It’s a very offensive, but then other cultures, you need to say the same thing to them, and if you waste their time in their minds by saying, How are you Pieter put off from that? And so I really have to start to get to know people, to even figure out how to start a conversation with them in a way that they instantly want to listen to you and then act on the direction.
06:26 S1: Yeah, my German designer. Just the facts, ma’am. Right, just the fact it doesn’t have time for conversation, it’s a German efficiency, right? We gotta make it happen and get it done right, which I like that, ’cause when I go to him with what I asked him to do, I’m looking for quick quality results and he delivers them, but then there’s other people I’m getting used to. You get a massage, this one a little bit, you gotta warm them up and anyway, fascinating topic, but… So here’s the three questions I always ask every guest on the show now, and the first one, you’re gonna have answers to all of them, don’t worry, I was doing to prep for this, but I found that these are useful tools, if you’re listening in the audience, if you’ve never come across them yourself, gender, they’re extremely useful. And so the first one is what… Tell me something that is really going just very, very well for you lately…
07:32 S2: Oh, that’s a great question. I think what’s going well for me lately is one of the things that I do on the first of every single year, and if I look at my values and I think about what values are core that stay, and then what values do I really need to work on… And this year, on January 1st, I picked humanity, not knowing what 2020 was going to bring all of us, and so I put about different language and what embodiment looks like with that, and what’s going well for me is handling all of the things that have come at us in the last year, knowing that humanity is one of the values I wanted to enhance this year, it’s allowed me to go and put in a whole different way and stay in a mindset moving forward, a mindset of solution versus a mindset of fear.
08:24 S1: Yeah, I fully relate to what you’re talking about there, because what I think we’re gonna begin to see as we get into the details of what we’re gonna talk about is that the second law of thermodynamics or the law of entropy has a very human dimension to it, and that is that we’re always at risk of breaking down and losing our resolve and losing our commitment to things, and that if you don’t actively take a role in moving the needle on that forward, it’s not like you’re just gonna stay still where you are, you’re gonna eventually degrade. And so, glad to hear that’s been working out for you, but tell me something that’s not going so well, maybe biggest challenge, hardest part of being you… Something that could be better.
09:15 S2: The thing that is a challenge for me is managing a fast-growing organization, we started three years ago, and the business unfortunately has done incredibly well, but learning how to hire in a different way, learning how to hire experts and they’re filled versus your traditional employee where you hope they can do it all. I’ve really taken a different approach to hiring for my organization and brought in more contractors and more experts, and one of the things that I help organizations with, but when you really think about it faster in business, they’re really complex. You have to think a lot about the talent you bring in, and it’s something that I think about every single day is what talent in recording the business and are they happy and product
10:07 S1: That… Absolutely, they call it the age-old problem, but… Good help is hard to find these days. But what I’ve found your right as that people are hoping to bring in really strong generalists, when what they should be bringing in is really strong specialists, and then letting other really strong specialists hand the areas that the first person is not really good at. A fantastic… What’s something you’re looking forward to? What’s coming down the pike in the next couple of months there, major 2020 or possibly next year that you’re really excited about?
10:49 S2: Yeah, so one of the things I’m really excited about is we develop leadership academies for organizations, and they’ve always been virtual leadership academies because the virtual aspect has allowed businesses to be a little bit more nimble, a little bit more affordable for content, the way I’ve an adult learner learns, and over the years, some people weren’t as excited about virtual training, they didn’t think it was possible, and it didn’t work, and I was like, I promise it does. We have systems to make virtual learning and virtual work work, and then obviously as the world is changing right now, people are like, Oh, this does work, and so our academies are really growing and other people who are having the opportunity to develop themselves so that they are better leaders and exciting, and it’s exciting to see how organizations have adapted and how we’ll have to adapt in the 21st century to be successful.
11:45 S1: Yeah, I was just on a phone call recently with some trusted advisors of mine who said that because of what has happened in 2020, its forcing people who were previously making a fortune doing conferences and events to really push forward to that Star Wars-like age where we can be present via hologram, and they’re actually… They’re actually investing tons of research and development and money in technology and trying to figure out how to make that possible, because what happens is the moment you can begin to project yourself into a… Not necessarily into an auditorium, ’cause those are still Obote in a lot of cases, but through virtual learning, and then in some cases, yes, in a live gathering, it’s gonna make possible what we used to think was stuff that was hundreds of years in the future and
12:53 S2: Efficiency to… Conferences are amazing, they bring a lot of energy, there’s a lot of value to bringing people together, but sometimes because of the business, whether it’s efficiency, the time you’re away from the business, travel, flights, all of that, it can be hard on the business. And so when we are finding a blended approaches or being open to other ways of educating and bringing people together, we actually create a lot of efficiencies in the workplace, and that creates excitement and innovation and all that type of stuff.
13:24 S1: Yeah, well, and don’t forget, of course, you take a risk as an event organizer, don’t you… Because you plan a conference and you’ve got to sell a certain amount of hotel rooms, for example, well, if the speaker can be beamed into it and you can attract all local people, then that’s gonna change that, I’m not saying it’s gonna be necessarily great for the tourism industry, they may take some losses in that regard, but I think it is gonna reshape the way that we do that, the way that we traditionally have done those things, I don’t think they’ll go away, but I think there may become new more efficient ways, like you say, for them to happen. Really? Yeah, well, let’s start out here, Jen, by violating the only inviolable rule about the seven deadly sins of leadership, no one talks about… Let’s talk about them. So what are they and what are some signs we can identify to begin spotting them when they’re at work.
14:31 S2: So the seventh, at least sends, we all know those are the pride, greed, wrath and being less patent, and when you think of those and You think about leading teams, often times we into patterns that actually are very similar to the seven deadly sins, and they’re really difficult for teams around us, and if you think about pride, if someone is in a space where they are so addicted to their own beliefs, addicted to themselves, and they’re the smartest person in the room, those types of things that we see with leaders at times, because they’re pridi petition to them. They’re not able to see other people’s viewpoints, and you can’t see other people to be point to you felt… They’re always have to be the smartest person in the room. You’re not learning, and every leader, the 21 centuries, you’re not learning, you’re in trouble, just like you said, if we’re not going forward, we’re going somewhere… I probably not a Orgo, and so pride is a huge one that we see a Ethernet…
15:39 S1: Funny, you were touching on something just a minute ago, now I’ve lost it, but I was thinking to myself, when these things show up, right, traditionally, the way we’ve thought of them is from the Judeo-Christian tradition, which is just… It crops up anywhere. But in business, when I first thought about it, I said West in business, I think of someone having an affair at the office or something, but… No. You framed it differently. So just a couple of them. How do you frame them and what are some of the attributes or behaviors that you would see…
16:18 S2: So what was it’s around recognition and that everything has to be about me, and I want to put all the credit, and I’m taking all the credit I last black honesty and truth, because I’m taking the credit for the team. And I was very lustful to have all the Sun on you, and so that last fullness shows up when you think about letting… One of the things that we know about the mind is when something good happens to us, we get a donut like that, and we can actually get addicted to being right, and so just like you get a dopamine head at Sugar is your choice, or alcohol or any of those things. The more you get, the more you need to have that same level of happiness. And that when your part to get that opening addiction, when you’re right, every time I’m right, I feel good. And this is Randy mean more and more, it’s a letting you know you’re being very flatness towards the dopamine head, and when you’re addicted, you can’t hear other people’s opinions, and you’ll say the sky is purple when everyone knows it’s blue and parkour around carrying the truth about your business, it can be really tough for people.
17:32 S2: Yeah, and when you think about slot, it’s criticizing other people’s work, I’m not willing to do your work, but I am definitely willing to judge your work, we see that a lot where people want to set and judge and they’re not willing to learn, they’re not willing to ask questions, but yet they’re gonna tell you how to do it and leaders fallen, that kind of… But all the time, and then they get themselves a little bit of trouble ’cause people start doing it like they ask them to, and then they surprise me. It doesn’t go well.
18:05 S1: Yeah, I remembered what I was thinking as you first started talking there, so hopefully this isn’t too late, there are situations I’ve found Jen and you’ve probably come across is to where I’m right. And I know that I’m right, right. However, there’s this old saying that, The truth shall set you free. And then there’s, I think we should take that and flip it around and say, You should be willing to set the truth free because it’ll always come back if it’s the truth. And what I’m getting at there is I’ve had situations where I’ve right. And it’s still blown up in my face because of pride or the seven deadly sins coming into play, but then I’ve learned to have situations where I’m right, and I’m willing to sit back and let the truth go because I know it’ll come back to me. Right, I know that the person who is not understanding or not getting or not diving with what I’m like, I know this, I’ve seen it so many times, I know it’s right, but I’m not gonna try and prove it right. I’m not gonna hang on to the bitter end. I’m gonna, I’m gonna let the truth go and it’ll come back to me, and when you adopt that mindset that you’re secure in it, but you’re willing to entertain the doubts of the people around you, eventually they’ll reconcile with each other.
19:39 S1: Yeah, absolutely. One of the things that when I’m working with the executives and they’re struggling with that addition of being… Right now, one of the things we talk about is in a room, when you say, Hey guys, what do you think? And no one says anything and we all look at each other, it’s… Because they’re waiting for you to tell them what to think. There’s some huge, right? But as we start to move past that and recognize our addiction and try to start to open up our knowledge and learning and allow others to bring their opinions in the room.
20:08 S2: One of the things that we always start to do is when you feel like your rights just like you said, to set it free, I teach people to say, You know what, I don’t see it from your view point, but I’m willing to take a ride, change my mind. I want you to try to change my mind ’cause I just need to see it from your point of view, and so you’re not giving up your truth, but like you said, you’re setting it free, and then you get to hear someone else’s viewpoint is two things can be true at the same time.
20:34 S1: Yeah, and a while back, I had a friend of mine, Brian A, here on the show, and we were talking about this and… I’m trying to remember how exactly we phrased it now, but it was to the effect of, You should have a ratio where the kind of interaction you just described is the majority of how your interactions… If you’re in leadership, there are still times where you need to say, I’m sorry, this has to happen, and I know you don’t like it, but I’m asking you to disagree and commit as they say at Amazon… Right, and there are times when you need to be firm and you need to be able to simply give a given order… Right. Where it went wrong for me was I got used to that being the inverse in the military, they just give you the order and you’re not supposed to question it, but it’s not to say that you never do that, is to say that you minimize that because if that becomes your dictatorial style. Then, as you said, the people are gonna be sitting around looking at each other, waiting for you to tell them what to think.
21:48 S2: Absolutely, and one of the things that I’m seeing right now is a trend and it’s very concerning is we have had to be those types of leaders this year in crisis hits. We have to be firm. There’s not a lot of time for discussion. This is a decision we’re gonna make right or wrong, we’re making our best decision at this moment, and when we do that over and over again, we start to create a pattern, and we all are now moving forward and finding how our new work style works for this period of our life, we have to stop leading that way and we have to go back to leading in it with an open mind and leading with curiosity and asking questions, but as we’ve been crisis-managing for several months, we’re getting into some habits that we have got through managed so that that doesn’t turn into how we use… Is leaders long-term?
22:36 S1: Exactly. Well, that was a lot of mileage for just the first question, but I got another one here for you, Jen. I suppose there’s probably maybe other metaphors or something like that we could use to describe these… This is a curiosity thing, there’s no wrong answer to this, but… Why the seven deadly sins? Why? One in particular that I really… Did you really find it useful for describing this… Yeah.
23:00 S2: I think I found it you for a couple of reasons, and one of them is it’s easy to start to use language that people understand, and when you walk in and say, Hey, you know you’re being a bully, you’re kind of being a meaning… No one likes you, no. It’s gonna respond well to that. But when you start to think about… We’re in a situation where we are working with wrath and because of your language, that action is causing people to be afraid to make decisions or not be proactive, whatever it’s causing, and so the language starts to resonate with people because it creates a story in their head, and instead of saying, Oh, I’m wrong, it’s like, Oh, I wanna work on that, I wanna be a better person. And that’s why we start to use some of that language.
23:56 S1: Good call. What about… Let’s say we’re in the leadership position, now, I’m aware of what pride does to your ability to hear these things, I’m aware of what Les does. When someone else does something, I’m aware of how that quickly turns into envy, if someone else does something well and you don’t get to claim credit for it, the water, maybe some criterias and categories, if you’re in the leadership position that should be… Maybe you don’t interpret them that way, but they should be warning signals that you’re going into the… You’re crossing the line here into one of the deadly sins.
24:39 S2: Yeah, I think one of the things that you should watch for is if you’re starting to say me and why is no one making decisions anymore… Why am I having to make all the decisions? Who one brought this problem to my attention, why did they not bring this to my attention? Our options as leaders create the actions and others, and so if you’re finding that people aren’t bringing things to you, it’s probably because they’re scared because of how you’ve reacted in the past, probably aren’t making decisions because no matter what decision they make, and your then… Or decisions better. And so you’re right, so why make a decision because if it’s not yours, I’m gonna be in trouble, so I’m just at… But my dad can wait for you to tell me what decision I should make, and on to the ways we start to recognize, Hey, we’re frustrated with something across the board with our team, there’s something that we are doing that’s creating that frustration. It’s not them, it’s us.
25:33 S1: Yeah. Leadership is the problem, and leadership is the solution. Absolutely, yeah, looking back over your years of experience here and jets story time, I’m curious if you’ve… Particularly if you’ve ever come across a situation where you were dealing with an executive or maybe a team, and through several people or maybe even one person, you’re like, I see all seven of them at work, have you ever helped someone like that and what was the outcome
26:08 S2: Yeah, absolutely. There is a team I work with or fantastic, and I love them, and it’s an entire some suite. And when you work with an entire C-suite, you team coaching, you start to learn all of the habits, how each person and our acts with each other, and you start to see where things start to break down, and the CEO, incredibly intelligent man, but definitely has a view of how he wants things done. And that obviously is frustrating when you hire really high level people, they wanna find their own way, and they’re an interesting group, one of them, in fact, one person on the team and saying, You can go want to… To the CEO, and he’s like, Oh my gosh, thank you for bringing that to my attention. But there’s only one person on the team that can do that out of the six other, so they start trying gliding, they tell that one person to tell them this and all of this… Or start to happen. And so when you work with entire executive groups, all of it in there, and probably more, but what’s nice about that is as an outsider, you start to see the habits and the dynamics, and then we start to tap the dynamics.
27:13 S2: And how do we change the dynamics? Why is only one person able to be honest… Well, it’s because how they use their language and how they’ve built up over time trust, they didn’t go in the first day and be like, Hey, this is a crazy idea, where you think is… They build up to that and the others never wanted to do the work to get there, but yeah, they’re a great team, they do so many, they’re freely fast growing business, they’ve tripled in three years, they tripled their business, but they work very hard at being better leaders they work really hard at being a better team, and I know it’s why they’ve been able to do what they’ve done.
27:50 S1: Makes me curious as an outsider to an outsider, hearing you describe that process and I just… Because I’m so familiar with violating all of these sins, it personally, I tend to think that very often I can read the language pretty quickly, does it take you a long time or what’s… Maybe it’s a long time with some people nuts along with others, to recognize the data and say, Oh, I know what we’re dealing with here.
28:22 S2: You know, it depends, but usually it takes… It’s not that long. Pretty short time. How I do it is we go in, we work with a team, you understand what our goals are, then I work with people individually for several months, and then through that I start to hear the score a part, connecting the dots, then we start to do maybe two on two heifers, a goal that both of your teams have, but you’re working against each other. Let’s talk about how to bring that together. You can also the retreats and work as a team, but we also create language, and that’s one of the biggest pieces of it, so if the whole entire team is committed to being really strong, we create language when things aren’t that way, if you can’t be honest, then this is the language we agree on that could be, Hey, I need you to hear me today, and we agree that when someone says that as an executive or like pause had this is one they need to hear me and I’m not hearing. So we create language to allow them to communicate and depose each other when it’s needed.
29:29 S1: Yeah, it’s a moment. I’ve come across this before. It’s a moment where if you’re the CEO, basically what you’re being asked to do is to take your CEO hat off temporarily and listen as you would to a friend, as though you were attempting to empathize and connect with a friend, and then once that’s done… And you’ve heard it and reflected back that you’ve understood it, and that person feels understood, then you put the hat back on and you start making decisions based on the fact that you’ve truly absorbed that data and you haven’t… Just rejected it out of hand.
30:12 S2: Yeah, and we also create language because we have to challenge each other as executives or executive team, and so when we’re making a big diverse, then we create language around like, Alright, who’s gonna be the person who writes to the part… And instead of having someone say, well, I don’t think their idea is good or whatever, we create an actual process to rip it apart because that’s how we find the best solution, but we call it that we name it that and then everyone’s allowed to just be the devil’s advocate in a really Reuther to find where the holes are instead of the other way we normally do it, well, they just didn’t like my idea and this, that and the other, we’re gonna add it in to the process and we’re creating a language around, this is part of it, and when we say this language, it’s not personal, it’s what’s the confer… The organization.
31:01 S1: Yeah, that’s the whole Mastermind process. That’s exactly like in the mastermind that I’m in, we create our vision and then we present it before each other, and I’ve spent a ton of time working on mine, but I know the day I stand in front of my Mastermind group and present it to them, I know at least there’s probably three or four people in the back of my head popping up… Right. And I say, Well, hold on a Anatole on a minute here. What about this? You’re not satisfying me so… Fun times. But it works. It does force you. It does sharpen you. It does. It brings out the best in you. If you let it…
31:39 S2: Yeah, just imagine if an executive group so often as executives, when we walk in to know that circle, we’re walking in protecting our team, protecting our work, protecting our ego or protecting ourselves, we’re not protecting the organization, and then we get around the table and then Jackie positions we play the game and then we go back and then we manage our vertical, what… Using that mastermind term, which is what I do with teams, if we said, this is about the company, and we look at the company as a mastermind group where we support and we trust and we’re honest, then that goes back down and gets put into your vertical, but that’s not how we work as executives, we protect our team, we walk into the room under protection instead of protecting the company and then walking back to our teams and make it happen.
32:33 S1: Yeah, yeah, you know, as you’re saying that, I’m sort of chuckling to myself because this is more of a personal way, my wife and I have found if we sit back to back like Forest Gump and Bubba and discuss our pain points with each other, we get a lot more done. That strengthens the marriage. And I just had this vision in my head of figuring out a way to get a C-Suite team or an executive team together to where they could all sit with her in the same room, but nobody had to look at anybody else, and then they could voice their concerns based on what they’re reading on a sheet of paper, I don’t know if that actually would ever work, but it’s just something I think about from time to time.
33:19 S2: Or idea, and really the virtual world kind of tends to that we put everyone on a zoom call without the video. And that were facial expression, and we’re not adding thoughts of someone has a funny look on their face, we start making judgements to what we think they are thinking, and that’s a lot of what you’re doing. When you do that with your wife, you’re taking away the visual of your Invisalign tins and you’re taking her word as for word and not adding to it through how moving her hands or her arm or touching her hair or whatever, your remove extra… And it’s truly about the words that she’s sharing with you, reminds me of what Rabbi Daniel Lapin says, he says, We use your ears. Because our eyes are actually… If you strip away the mechanism in our brain that interprets what the eyes feed into it, our eyes are actually looking at everything upside down, inside out versus the ears, they just hear… They can hear tonality, but they hear language and that does… That activates the audio processing and the intellect side of us instead of the emotional and lots of the eyes.
34:32 S2: So
34:34 S1: Yeah, I could talk about this stuff all day, Jen, but we’re out of questions for the moment, unless you had anything specifically that you wanted to add for the good of the order, anything I didn’t ask or you really wanted to bring up that you felt was important to add to this.
34:49 S2: Yeah, I think that if you’re listening to this and you’re a leader and you’re like, Wow, maybe I am… Maybe I’m being able to… Prideful, maybe I am a little addicted to my own opinions and things like that, the first thing to do is just start asking questions, and if you get in your car at the end of the day and you said, Wow, I’ve learned 10 new things today, that’s your first path, and to open your mind and becoming a leader that can really see the truth, and I adjust what it can do for your business, if you’re willing to hear everyone else’s opinions and thoughts and feelings in their truth, then it just can take your business to a whole new level. And so that’s my advice, that’s really start to get curious and be curious without judgement
35:37 S1: Into that, where should we send people, Jen, if they want to take a closer look at your company and what you’re up to and learn more about your coaching programs.
35:59 S1: Alright, well, there she goes, Jen Thornton, thanks so much for joining us. It was great talking to you, and we’d love to have you back again sometime soon.
36:05 S2: I appreciate it, it was great to you.
36:07 S1: Thanks for listening to this episode of influencer networking secrets. Don’t forget to go to the poleward dot com, influencer networking secrets to get signed up for your free copy of influencer networking secrets, the book. If you found this episode helpful, please share it with someone you know who would benefit… See you next time.